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Master Hunt Test Full

36K views 181 replies 87 participants last post by  Deadbird 
#1 ·
Good Afternoon,

I just checked Entry Express to find that one of my favorite clubs, of which I am not a member, has opened its July test, and that all of the Master spots are already full. In February!

I am an amateur trainer. I have a two year old dog that got her Junior and Senior titles by her second birthday. She also passed a Master test and got her 1.5 Grand Master Pointing Title before her second birthday. I would really like to get her Master Title and maybe even get her Master National Qualified by July 31. I don't think I will be able to get her into the tests she needs.

Does anyone know what if anything AKC is doing to address this problem for those of us with only one dog?

Thanks,
 
#53 ·
Fine. But don't blame EE, the MNRC or anyone else for the problem of getting entered in that event.
Agree 100% with that too.
 
#55 ·
I am in the processing of taking the 100 question judges test and having to read the rule book again so will look up the pre close scratch and see if I can find out the answer for sure if the club can charge a fee prior to the close. I know in the past prior to closing all money had to be returned expect the 4.50 on EE. As long as they scratch at least a week before the close should not be a problem. it is the ones scratch at the last few minutes that really should be charged.
 
#56 ·
I am in the processing of taking the 100 question judges test and having to read the rule book again so will look up the pre close scratch and see if I can find out the answer for sure if the club can charge a fee prior to the close. I know in the past prior to closing all money had to be returned expect the 4.50 on EE. As long as they scratch at least a week before the close should not be a problem. it is the ones scratch at the last few minutes that really should be charged.
I fully agree with your last statement. Plus it hurt others as well. I tried to get my one dog in because during the day yesterday, two slots came open and I got 2 in. I watched until close but couldn't get the other one in. Then this morning first thing, there were two slots open but it had closed. I called. The inconsiderate person that scratched left a phone message to EE at 8:00 pm which was well after they closed their office. So, naturally the slots were not opened in time to get in but I was also told that even though there were slots open, I couldn't put my dog in because it was after the close. YET YET YET...... they could still be scratched manually after the close. Now the club is out $150 for entry fees and my dog doesn't get to go. There is something really seriously wrong with this picture. My husband has to travel over 8 hours to get to this remote test and has to leave one dog home.

I have dogs running in Texas where there is a big problem so brought two home to run here and still a big problem. I'm getting pretty close to being through with Hunt test. This was the year I needed the titles.
 
#57 ·
Without the pros, clubs couldn't afford to put on the master test. .
I don't think that any club makes money on their Master stake. I have chaired events for several clubs and my analysis of our income and expenses shows that the lower stakes subsidize Master. I have absolutely nothing against professional handlers, but a Master stake is simply very expensive to put on and the costs are not covered by the entry fees.
 
#58 ·
I don't think that any club makes money on their Master stake. I have chaired events for several clubs and my analysis of our income and expenses shows that the lower stakes subsidize Master. I have absolutely nothing against professional handlers, but a Master stake is simply very expensive to put on and the costs are not covered by the entry fees.
What am I missing?

60 dogs x $80 = $4,800
2 judges in on Friday out on Sunday
Travel $600
Hotel $360
Meals $300
Gifts - $150
2 Live birds per dog x 60 dogs = 120 x 15 = $1,800 (most clubs don't do that many)
Lunches/drinks for Judges/BBs/Marshall/Stake Chairman etc. 9 x $10 x 2days = $180
ribbons/awards $200
Leaves $1,210 to cover other costs - batteries for radios, ice, etc...
 
#61 ·
Why are tests opening months in advance? They are NOT all accidents like they were late last year.

I don't get the point...
 
#62 ·
I don't think that any club makes money on their Master stake. I have chaired events for several clubs and my analysis of our income and expenses shows that the lower stakes subsidize Master. I have absolutely nothing against professional handlers, but a Master stake is simply very expensive to put on and the costs are not covered by the entry fees.
Thank You!

The financial outlook is the same for our club as well. The return for the efforts expended is just not there for the Master test. We feel that as an AKC Club we are still obligated to provide a Master test. However we are NOT obligated to be a member of the MNRC and provide opportunities for their plate chasers.
 
#169 ·
What is wrong with making the entry fee for a master test more in line with the costs? Instead of setting the fee at $80, why not $100 or $110?
 
#64 ·
Jeff ,
Anyone (even you or I) can enter as many dogs as they want to. VIP has nothing to do with that. Which is the reason suspending the VIP program had zero effect on the problem.
You can repeat this lie as many times as you like, but it won't change the FACT that the VIP program did give an unfair advantage to it members on getting entered in tests that were filling almost immediately after opening
 
#65 ·
There is software that will auto enter you into any Entry Express event the minute it opens. The software is similar to what scalpers use to buy concert and sports tickets. They are called "bots". More simply, a script can be written to monitor EE and email or text you the minute a test opens. An entrepreneurial minded capitalist will soon fill this niche if there is money to be made. Sad to see this will be necessary.
 
#66 ·
What am I missing?

60 dogs x $80 = $4,800
2 judges in on Friday out on Sunday
Travel $600
Hotel $360
Meals $300
Gifts - $150
2 Live birds per dog x 60 dogs = 120 x 15 = $1,800 (most clubs don't do that many)
Lunches/drinks for Judges/BBs/Marshall/Stake Chairman etc. 9 x $10 x 2days = $180
ribbons/awards $200
Leaves $1,210 to cover other costs - batteries for radios, ice, etc...

Paid help, garbage, toilets, rent, lots of poppers, live rounds, and ribbons. Not much of $1200 left after that.
 
#67 ·
You can repeat this lie as many times as you like, but it won't change the FACT that the VIP program did give an unfair advantage to it members on getting entered in tests that were filling almost immediately after opening
Being a former licensed attorney, I would think you'd be a more rational thinker.

Why are the tests still filling up in minutes and pros still getting the bulk of the slots?

It's not rocket science regards!
 
#68 ·
Paid help, garbage, toilets, rent, lots of poppers, live rounds, and ribbons. Not much of $1200 left after that.
How does a full master test (60) come in at a net loss were a 30 dog senior makes enough money to carry the loss on the master?

I ain't buying that.
 
#69 ·
What am I missing?

60 dogs x $80 = $4,800
2 judges in on Friday out on Sunday
Travel $600
Hotel $360
Meals $300
Gifts - $150
2 Live birds per dog x 60 dogs = 120 x 15 = $1,800 (most clubs don't do that many)
Lunches/drinks for Judges/BBs/Marshall/Stake Chairman etc. 9 x $10 x 2days = $180
ribbons/awards $200
Leaves $1,210 to cover other costs - batteries for radios, ice, etc...
Another factor to consider, in the cost of Master, is how does your equation look with 65 Master dogs? Now you have to split, double your judge cost, add three to four more bird boys, for an extra five entry fees? Yet another factory in limiting to 60 Master. (and yes, our club has had more than one test with Master numbers in the sixties).

We've made money on all our tests, nut definitely more on some tests than others. Availability of grounds, load on the workers and organizers, finding judges; all are reasons I would not want to see them do away with the ability to limit Master entries.
 
#70 ·
Another factor to consider, in the cost of Master, is how does your equation look with 65 Master dogs? Now you have to split, double your judge cost, add three to four more bird boys, for an extra five entry fees? Yet another factory in limiting to 60 Master. (and yes, our club has had more than one test with Master numbers in the sixties).

We've made money on all our tests, nut definitely more on some tests than others. Availability of grounds, load on the workers and organizers, finding judges; all are reasons I would not want to see them do away with the ability to limit Master entries.
That is exactly the reason some clubs needed the limit even if grounds and help were available. Go from a money maker to money loser at 11:59 day of close. Any club that can't at least break even with a full flight in any stake needs to take a look at their pricing & costs.
 
#72 ·
Each club is free to do as they will regarding Master National affiliation. Certainly the MN has to accept some of the blame for the current crazy state of affairs. Clubs should also admit that they are part of the problem. Limits are certainly necessary for some clubs but how many unlimited tests are being hosted. I find it hard to believe that in 3 years we went from all tests unlimited to maybe 10 a year. Did all the clubs suddenly lose half their membership & half their grounds?

With the current system, there is an incentive to keep people active in the game. How long must someone play the game before they become a competent marshal, committee member, bird steward, gun marshal, hunt secretary or hunt chair. My guess is it takes more than the 6 passes required for a MH. When I look at local clubs, it is the evil "plate chasers" that hold many of these jobs.

Dropping a clubs MN affiliation will certainly result in smaller tests. In my area, it will also alienate many of the people that bust their humps to put on a test.

Now y'all can return to the regularly scheduled program of Master National bashing & I will try to resist my urge to respond:cool:
 
#73 ·
I don't think that any club makes money on their Master stake. I have chaired events for several clubs and my analysis of our income and expenses shows that the lower stakes subsidize Master. I have absolutely nothing against professional handlers, but a Master stake is simply very expensive to put on and the costs are not covered by the entry fees.
I wonder if it is regional--I am sure it varies a bit from club to club--but the for the ones for which I am privy to the P&L, MH pretty much makes or breaks and if you get a good JH/SH turnout, that is gravy (but we often don't). We definitely could not put on a test without MH, though.
 
#74 ·
There is software that will auto enter you into any Entry Express event the minute it opens. The software is similar to what scalpers use to buy concert and sports tickets. They are called "bots". More simply, a script can be written to monitor EE and email or text you the minute a test opens. An entrepreneurial minded capitalist will soon fill this niche if there is money to be made. Sad to see this will be necessary.
I am not so well connected with script kiddies as I used to be, but probably this is correct, especially if they are still on .net. Regardless, I have heard some entrepreneurs are already working in this niche in more the old fashioned way.
 
#75 ·
Each club is free to do as they will regarding Master National affiliation. Certainly the MN has to accept some of the blame for the current crazy state of affairs. Clubs should also admit that they are part of the problem. Limits are certainly necessary for some clubs but how many unlimited tests are being hosted. I find it hard to believe that in 3 years we went from all tests unlimited to maybe 10 a year. Did all the clubs suddenly lose half their membership & half their grounds?

With the current system, there is an incentive to keep people active in the game. How long must someone play the game before they become a competent marshal, committee member, bird steward, gun marshal, hunt secretary or hunt chair. My guess is it takes more than the 6 passes required for a MH. When I look at local clubs, it is the evil "plate chasers" that hold many of these jobs.

Dropping a clubs MN affiliation will certainly result in smaller tests. In my area, it will also alienate many of the people that bust their humps to put on a test.

Now y'all can return to the regularly scheduled program of Master National bashing & I will try to resist my urge to respond:cool:

Mark,

I've been running tests since 1991 and judging them since 1994.

When I started, HT's were about amateurs (mostly hunters) and gun dogs. Was this a flawed vision of what the venue was supposed to be about?

Now, AKC HT's are all about getting to the MN and getting an MNH title, with more and more dogs being Pro trained and handled from JH on up the ladder. The majority of dogs at the MN are handled by Pros. The amateur trainer/handlers are fewer each year. Is this a good thing?

HRC has become much the same, with Pros running a greater percentage of the dogs each year. The Grand is predominately Pro handlers, with few amateur trained and handled dogs passing the tests. This is certainly not what a program "by hunters for hunters" should have morphed into.

I don't get to Alabama or the deep south to run tests. From what I have read and heard, you have excellent grounds and a large pool of paid and unpaid workers. I think that's great, but I don't think it is typically the case for a lot of clubs across the nation.

I belong to 2 clubs up here in the Northeast, and have chaired, been secretary, bird steward, marshal, equipment wrangler and thrown many thousands of birds and planted an equal number of blinds over the years. One club has around 60 members year to year. Of those folks, 3 regularly qualify for and sometimes run the MN. The other club has a few more members, fluctuating around 70 or so. Of those, 2 members regularly run the MN. So you can see that an extremely small percentage of the membership has MN involvement in these clubs. That means the heavy lifting is done mostly by folks who play the game with a different goal in mind, perhaps more in line with the origins of the sport.

I think it would behoove the parent organization(s) and their 'premier events' to not alienate these folks. Time for a 'reset'......-Paul
 
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