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1 versus 2 in HRC Grand

11K views 51 replies 22 participants last post by  Margo Ellis 
#1 ·
Could some please explain what is expected at the Grand. IE what gets you 1's. Besides a handle on a mark. What is the blind standard?
 
#2 ·
Poor line manners can get you marked down (i.e. creeping or sticking). A cast refusal on a blind will get you marked down and two will get you sent home. They like a pretty tight line on a blind and do NOT like scalloping.

Getting back to marks. Depending on the test scenario, sometimes your dog gets to hunt a bit, sometimes not. They are supposed to go directly to the area of the fall, establish a hunt, and get the bird. Again, sometimes the area of the fall is quite big and the dogs are allowed to hunt quite a while. If the standard is 11 o'clock to one o'clock, and your dog takes off toward 10 or 2, the judges will ask you to put your dog on the bird...which is considered a handle.
 
#3 ·
That are a lot of spots where you can get dinged at the Grand. The walk to the bucket, sitting at the bucket, creeping, poor mouth habits, repeated commands may be judged more harshly by some than others. A dog with poor line manners may never see a mark; or, might run all the series--depending on that Grand's judges.
As for marks, the dog must go directly to the AOF. Hunts must be in the AOF and can not be long or you will hear, "Put your dog on the bird." If the dog leaves the AOF or doesn't go directly to it, that dog will be given "1" for sure-been there, got the tee shirt!
In regards to the blind, the best advice I've ever gotten about running blinds at the Grand, came from a pro who said, "Everytime you blow the whistle you're saying, 'Look at us, judge us'." With this in mind, the best way to ace the blind is to run straight lines, keep your dog tight, fat is bad and so is deep. Slipped whistles and cast refusals will get you "1" the first time and "Sorry but..." the second time.
I've learned a great deal by watching my fellow Pin Oak HRC members prep their dogs to run the Grand. They understand what 'Grand level of control' is and how to train for it. If you can get with an experienced amateur group or pro, they will really help you achieve that level of control.
 
#4 ·
Agreed get with someone that has trained for and passed the grand. Having judged two of them I will tell you it is important that they go directly to AOF and establish a hunt. Blinds, challenge them.
 
#7 ·
I heard someone mention this a couple weekends ago at a HT. They were asked to go judge the Grand but said I don't care for someone standing over their shoulder telling them how to judge. I didn't have to time to ask him more about it but I am curious to know what he's talking about. PM me if you want
 
#8 · (Edited)
Just to confirm,
Is a single cast refusal an automatic pair of 1s (at best)?
Are 2 cast refusals an automatic pair of zeros?

Edit: if a single CR in a test/series = a pair of ones, then a 2nd CR in another test/series (another pair of ones)would make it impossible to get 13 points and pass, correct?

Assuming both judges saw the CRs.
 
#11 ·
1 CR on a blind will probably NOT get you ones...

3 CR in a ROW on a blind will probably get you home...

All of these things are subjective. 2 CR in a row is different then one just off the line and one at the pin - just sayn...

Go run it - have fun with it - and at the end of the day remember it's just dogs picking stuff up...


SMO
 
#12 ·
Well it is a little more then just go with it. We are talking about dropping 1000-1500.00 when you include hotel, gas...ect.. and then a week off of work (only have 3 weeks vacation). That is not just going wiht it and it is hard to do that when you are not sure what the standard is.
 
#22 ·
I don't know if this will help. When I ran my 1st blind at a Grand, my girl drifted right and I stopped her when she was about 6 yards off line. I gave her a left angle back and she closed to the line about 1/2 the distance but then began to parallel the line. I immediately stopped her and gave her another left angle back and she went right to the blind.

When reviewing the judges' charts, they showed 2 whistles to the blind and the 1st was a CR. I realized right then that if you think you did not get the perfect cast then the judges thought so too. She got 2's but I am sure that if the 2nd cast had been the same result as the 1st, then she would have gotten 1's.

Very little room for error. If you think you made an error, you had better not make another.
 
#46 ·
This is what confused me. How is that first handle a cast refusal. If thoses distances are actually correct and assuming that the dog was say 50 yards away 3 yards is what 2 degrees. So the judge is going to say your hand was at X angle and the dog only went 2 degrees and not 4 degrees? To me the dog challenged the line the whole time. That sounds kind of nit picky to me.
 
#27 ·
I don't think so. I've seen some hunt tests where the judges want very tight lines and the blinds are choppy as a result. More often than not, your blind in a field trial needs to be pleasing to the eye and being exactly on line is secondary. The choppy blind will not get called back.

Carey's description of his blind as an example. 6 yards off line stop and 1st cast the dog closes 1/2 the distance and parallel the line (presumably 3 yards to one side). The only time I'd blow a whistle when I'm 3 yards off the true line is to catch a factor such as a keyhole, prominent cover, point, etc. Of course the blinds are much longer, so being 3 yards off on a 75 yard blind may look a lot worse than I'm picturing.
 
#29 ·
yes sir keep the dog tight .You give a over at end usually gets you sent to truck that's in ukc hunt test I've never watched a field trial. you have to keep making progress to blind and stay online .I've seen a hunt test where the dog got behind the blind had to be whistled in they failed. They wanted dog to hit head on.
 
#31 ·
I have run 6 or 7 Grands and have passed and failed. I have yet to be judged unfair in my opinion. The one bad cast and your out is BS.
 
#35 ·
The HRC magazine publishes the tests.
 
#43 ·
Yes you've got it exactly right.
 
#52 ·
Both Shane and Cary have a lot of experience running the grand and Shane has judged it. When I ran my first grand I really didn't get wrapped up in the point system, I knew we had to mark well, have good ob, and run beautiful blinds. In a nutshell I was clueless :D. I went for the learning experience and the honor of having a dog that was qualified to run it. We were lucky and good that week and got a pass.
Since that grand I have learned a whole bunch more ;)
 
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