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Trainability

5K views 17 replies 13 participants last post by  stoney 
#1 ·
I am trying to figure out if there are field trial lines of labs that are easier to train for an amateur trainer that has some experience but not as much compared to professionals. By easy I am not saying able to take short-cuts in training but maybe there are dogs that have attributes and traits that often only pros have the skills to enhance. Still looking to run trials and have a dog that is trainable yet has top end potential. I have been looking over a lot of results, premium books, and trying to listen to field trial folks. Any insight is appreciated.
 
#2 · (Edited)
That is a tough question to answer as not all dogs learn at the same rate, even pups from the same litter. IMHO it's never advisable to skip steps in training. There is a ton of free training on the internet for you to research, but if it was me I'd find a group of like minded individuals to help out. A lot of pros also do group training that you can join.
 
#3 ·
Too many handler and trainers don't consider the biggest factor when training a dog.......the human factor.
You ask a fair question but don't forget you ability as a handler and trainer as maybe the biggest part in managing a dog.
Don and Crew
 
#17 ·
I think the only thing holding my dog back is my ability to train her. I have hope though because I'm learning, I have help in the form of a good club with good members, and the fact that she is my companion, an indoor dog, and I'm very in tune to her.

I dont know know if it helps you but I would consider that if you get a good pup, get as much help as you can as your learning curve will need to be way ahead of your pup.

Steve
 
#4 · (Edited)
I agree with Don.

I am definitely an amateur at both training and handling. I actually had a pro that I had spoken with at length, tell me after he had seen us fail a couple hunt tests, "You have trained your dog well, but _______ is what I would charge to handle your dog."

There were also times when I realized I was boring her, because I was still learning how to "read" her.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies. As I said, not looking to take short-cuts. I have a training group, have been to seminars, and consult with a couple of pros now and then. The pros I know have a variety of dogs from titled parents. They are hard to pin down on breedings they would choose because they have clients withe a wide variety of opinions on what dog is the best stud or something like that. Is what I am looking for is info on bloodlines and how they are to train. I am on dog number 3. So for she is nice but on ff she was somewhat bullheaded. Dog #2 was a breeze at ff but I always wonder, was/is i too soft to meet the demands of a pro truck.
 
#6 · (Edited)
This section of your post struck a nerve....." I always wonder, was/is.....".

As was mentioned, there are too many variables to work with. A person can get a bit carried away by focusing on what he/she has no control over. Becoming swamped with choices and indecision soon follows.

My last pup was decided by satisfying seven points of contention. Going this route gave the process tangible structure and aided in keeping an even keel. They were 1) a rather narrow parameter of genetics (pedigree), 2) a preponderance of titled dogs in the pedigree (siblings and offspring), 3) preferably amateur trained parents (FC, AFC and at least MH bitch), 4) within driving distance, 5) being at ease with the breeder and 6) health clearances.

When the decision was made, I had first pick female and spent what seemed like a very short time deciding on Pounce. It was worth the wait......almost a year.

Don't "wing-it". Design a plan and stick with it. Any opinions taken should fit into your plan (or cause you to alter it a bit).
 
#7 ·
Probably the most sincere and genuine post I've seen on here for a while.
So,before the commercials come in with 'programs' of their preference.

You mention Pro's a few times ,they do it for a living. Pro over this side of the pond are few and 'Many' !
The breed lines are not meant to suit the handler (imo) they are bred to suit the game.
Many handlers look for the breed lines that suit them?
If it is competition you seek then the most competitive lines are where the best are ,or should be.
Soft/Biddable lines may look good for the novice but in my experience these ones are usually the hardest of hunters on game/scent.
Bold /Fire breathers may have drive and enthusiasm but not every handler or program/process fits that drive or has the ability to adapt to it.
The easiest ones to train are the ones that you just have to show what to do. The hardest ones to train are the ones that you have to make them do it.
That doesn't mean that the first is any better or worse than the second!...Just Different.
 
#8 ·
Bubba dogs are thought of as amateur friendly. Have heard jazztime dogs are but have no first hand experience. Have trained 3 dogs out of berkley (3rivers set the hook) bred to a QAA bitch named Elsie. This breeding has been done 3 times and is producing amateur friendly dogs.

Most people likely don't put their hands on enough dogs to answer your question. Seek out info from pro trainers on which lines consistently produce dogs that are easy to train and have a team player attitude.
 
#9 ·
Hard going dogs can be very trainable.
Methodical dogs can be untrainable.
The level of a dog's desire is not necessarily related to its trainability.

Over the years, I have had
- Litter mates
- Siblings (that is dogs from different litters, but with the same sire and dam)

That were quite different

So I am not so sure about the ability to predict trainability in a litter


Ted
 
#11 ·
My first dog has a very ho-hum (healthy, hunting stock) pedigree. She's had a great pro train her but probably MH is her limit. She was folding with the pressure to stay sharp and get that last ribbon to qualify for her 2nd MN. Oh, well... So I sought out the polar opposite in my young dog. And guess what, I got the polar opposite. Hot, hot, hot. So, you can look at the pedigrees and make some good predictions about things like drive and intensity. But, trainability???

She was all rough angles and jagged edges when we started field work early this spring. What has surprised me is how week by week she'd gotten better. Consistency and a lot of help has made a difference. I can see her improve (and it's helped to keep a journal.) but someone who saw her for the first time would think she's a wild one. She is. But she's making steady progress.

So you tell me? Is she trainable? She won't be the youngest MH in the world. Is that your metric? Does trainable mean the dog has to be a quick study? Or stay on a linear path found in particular training programs? What's your idea of trainable? Is it a dog that only needs a 4 low? If on occasion you need to use the 6... would that disqualify her from "trainable" consideration?

Besides "can be done by an amateur" what is your criteria or definition of "trainability"?
 
#14 ·
Thanks again for the replies. Did anyone notice "First post"? Well it was on any board. Came in for lunch and had some great and replies and personal messages. Not looking to "strike a nerve' or follow a program. I ended up changing my post so many times I was just happy it was in the ballpark and did not notice the grammatical error. Not looking for the perfect puppy but it sure is fun trying. I just want to be able to train a pup using proven methods from Graham, Lardy, Hillman and others to train a pup within my means without feeling extremely stupid, frustrated, or mean. I will work them 7 days a week when weather permits. I love having a puppy around. Does life get any better than laughing at a pup a wondering "what are they thinking". I just wonder if certain families or lines of labs are easier to train. Thanks again
 
#18 ·
this is a great topic and one which australian trainers have debated a lot over the last 20 years or so
we reacquire a high drive dog that has a lot of bottom and not too much top
train ability is on the top of our list
obedience even from concealed positions
predictability and simplicity of training
trial temperament
much fact finding has taken place we have imported the best that the USA the UK and new zealand has to offer as well as our own superb lines
kelvinshead from scotland has given us a very dominant sire who has produced many champions which were highly driven yet very basic to train. unfortunately some of the other UK sires have proved to be far to low key for what we need
the american imports did not make an immediate impact because although they were very willing they needed a higher level of trainer to make them competitive it was at the recommendation of mary howley on a fact finding trip that australia discovered watermarks the boss he thru nice steady uncomplicated pups that marked well and were easy to train one of his sons became the first all american champion in australia and became a big winner in the last 7 years our breeders have skilfully picked the bones out of the best calm but driven american lines and now american bloodlines dominate our trial scene
train ability means a dog that is simple to predict,forgiving and can become proficient even with an average trainer
this is predicable to a point
but Ted is right there are no guarantees
 
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