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Thread: Hip and Eye Clearances Required on all retriever pups

  1. #61
    Super Moderator Vicky Trainor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon
    I have a slightly different slant on concentrating on the orthopedic inherited problems to the exclusion of the other inherited problems.
    Other inherited problems are not being excluded. You will note in Chris' post on the Classified - Lab puppies forum, hip & eye clearance is the minimum health clearance required in order to be able to place a classified ad for a Lab litter on RTF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson
    It's been brought to my attention, and I was in the wrong on this, that my old policy of "you might as well post OFA and CERF" is not working anymore. To solve the ad bumping issue, I made the ads non-repliable.

    The result with non-repliable ads is that those who try to skirt health clearances can no longer be fleshed out.

    From this point until further notice, no labrador litters will be permitted without a minimum of a hip clearance OFA, (and/or PENN HIP and/or OVC) and an eye clearance (CERF or other DVM certified method) on both parents.

    Anyone posting a litter without these health clearances, please DO NOT throw up any flack or grief when your ads are deleted from RTF.

    Thanks,

    Chris
    Bold emphasis in the quote of Chris' post is mine.

    I am sure if other publications, forums, websites were checked, most would not even have a minimum requirement for health clearances. The minimum of hip and eye clearances is a very good start for the ads and interested potential buyers can check for additional health clearances with the breeder.

    Vicky
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  2. #62
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    Vicky,
    Rather than digress further from the intent of the original announcement with more public debate, I've PMed you my response to your post.

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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  3. #63
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Somehow John feels that RTF should post disclaimers about genetic bottlenecking...

    There's no way we're going to make everybody happy, but based upon the response, there are a whole bunch pretty tickled.

    Someone wrote on page one that "elbows are more crippling than hips".

    This reminds me of a shotshell debate. Last I knew, dead was dead whether it was steel or bismuth. Crippled is crippled.

    Chris
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  4. #64
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson
    Somehow John feels that RTF should post disclaimers about genetic bottlenecking...

    There's no way we're going to make everybody happy, but based upon the response, there are a whole bunch pretty tickled.

    Someone wrote on page one that "elbows are more crippling than hips".

    This reminds me of a shotshell debate. Last I knew, dead was dead whether it was steel or bismuth. Crippled is crippled.

    Chris
    I'm all for the new guidelines for pup ads ...

    Elbows though...I am of the opinion that the dog has more trouble dealing with really bad elbows..than hips..in that they sometimes can "make due" with hip issues, and use front end to help haul the rear. The front end though ( does not carry well ..also, is more likely to cause rear end issues. Just an opinion ..and I think I will read up on this.. I noticed the post and it occurred to me that that very well may be true..

    I am not saying that elbow clearances should be added to the puppy ad qualifications...this is just a matter of discussion and is of interest.

    Judy

  5. #65
    Senior Member Bill Schuna's Avatar
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    Default Posting Hip and Eye Clearances for Sire and Dam

    Thanks Chris.

    Bill

  6. #66
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson
    Somehow John feels that RTF should post disclaimers about genetic bottlenecking...

    There's no way we're going to make everybody happy, but based upon the response, there are a whole bunch pretty tickled.

    Someone wrote on page one that "elbows are more crippling than hips".

    This reminds me of a shotshell debate. Last I knew, dead was dead whether it was steel or bismuth. Crippled is crippled.

    Chris
    Chris, The goal of any breeder should be to better the breed and accepted minimum health clearance's is a small price to pay. Last year our club reviewed our policy of litter posting and now require anyone wishing to post a litter sign a breeders responsabilty for that states the parents of the litter have met the Breed clubs minimum for health clearance's. Not perfect, but a start.
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  7. #67
    Senior Member TxFig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson
    There's no way we're going to make everybody happy, but based upon the response, there are a whole bunch pretty tickled.

    I hope you're not counting me in the "ticked" column - far from it. I fully support what you did, and even where you stopped.

    My initial question about CNM was merely curiosity, not criticism.
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    Chris Barnes

  8. #68
    Senior Member SueLab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Chute

    Elbows though...I am of the opinion that the dog has more trouble dealing with really bad elbows..than hips..in that they sometimes can "make due" with hip issues, and use front end to help haul the rear. The front end though ( does not carry well ..also, is more likely to cause rear end issues. Just an opinion ..and I think I will read up on this.. I noticed the post and it occurred to me that that very well may be true..

    I am not saying that elbow clearances should be added to the puppy ad qualifications...this is just a matter of discussion and is of interest.

    Judy
    It IS a mute point since elbow clearances will not be required on RTF. I think that the assessment of elbows being worst of 2 evils is correct from my experience.

    Bought a pup that ended up with the worst class hips - replacement pup, horrible front end. The front end dog had much more discomfort and was unable to do much. The hip dog did much better with buffered aspirin, hip surgery and lived to the age of 16. Both of these animals were cared for and members of our family for many years...

    I would never want to wish either problem on someone else. Neither problem is good but when I hear that a dog has a front end problem, I want more than someone saying it is an injury

    ...and when a breeder does not do elbows (or CNM and any other clearance and research to prevent problems), I have no interest in their breeding regardless of the pedigree. Guarantees do not pay you back for the attachment, vet costs and the poor quality of life for those animals produced.
    When it quits being fun...we retire!

    Nancy Neipert with
    Skeeter, my avatar (Deepwoods Off and Fly'n High, MH, MNH, MN09,10, 11.
    Gypsy (Windigo Deja Voodoo Gypsy Pearl, D List, QAA, MH) MN10 & to MD11
    Mary (Stellars Proud Mary) first Lean Mac dog
    Ted (Deepwoods Spirit of the Wild), now the baby & Suzie's grandson...
    Suzie (Watermarks Slough Foot Sue, MH, 2000-2011 - Farewell dear companion)

  9. #69
    Senior Member SueLab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Chute

    Elbows though...I am of the opinion that the dog has more trouble dealing with really bad elbows..than hips..in that they sometimes can "make due" with hip issues, and use front end to help haul the rear. The front end though ( does not carry well ..also, is more likely to cause rear end issues. Just an opinion ..and I think I will read up on this.. I noticed the post and it occurred to me that that very well may be true..

    I am not saying that elbow clearances should be added to the puppy ad qualifications...this is just a matter of discussion and is of interest.

    Judy
    It IS a mute point since elbow clearances will not be required on RTF. I think that the assessment of elbows being worst of 2 evils is correct from my experience.

    Bought a pup that ended up with the worst class hips - replacement pup, horrible front end. The front end dog had much more discomfort and was unable to do much. The hip dog did much better with buffered aspirin, hip surgery and lived to the age of 16. Both of these animals were cared for and members of our family for many years...

    I would never want to wish either problem on someone else. Neither problem is good but when I hear that a dog has a front end problem, I want more than someone saying it is an injury

    ...and when a breeder does not do elbows (or CNM and any other clearance and research to prevent problems), I have no interest in their breeding regardless of the pedigree. Guarantees do not pay you back for the attachment, vet costs and the poor quality of life for those animals produced.
    When it quits being fun...we retire!

    Nancy Neipert with
    Skeeter, my avatar (Deepwoods Off and Fly'n High, MH, MNH, MN09,10, 11.
    Gypsy (Windigo Deja Voodoo Gypsy Pearl, D List, QAA, MH) MN10 & to MD11
    Mary (Stellars Proud Mary) first Lean Mac dog
    Ted (Deepwoods Spirit of the Wild), now the baby & Suzie's grandson...
    Suzie (Watermarks Slough Foot Sue, MH, 2000-2011 - Farewell dear companion)

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