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Thread: Place the mark

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Default Place the mark

    You are the judge, it is Friday afternoon. This is your water site. You are setting up a NAHRA intermediate or AKC senior water series. You are on a large pond/small lake with big open water to the left and a boat out there throwing the other mark, off this page. You are setting up a second mark for the double and have this cattail point in your face, 75 yards out, about 5 yards wide, with a tiny hole of open water in it. What do you do??????? Is it your go bird, or your memory bird? Is it your live bird station or will you put the live birds on the boat (Say you have a red neck committee member who brought his camo bass party barge) Will you throw from the end of the point, or from shore onto the end of the point? or not use the point at all and put your mark in front of it, or in back of it? The wind is hard enough to push birds in open water. Your out to sea bird will drift if you leave it out there too long. What will you do? Place your mark please.
    Ken Bora
    btw- you cannot move the line ether. say access reasons or something. You are running from there.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  2. #2
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    I would throw the controlled bird from the shore toward the cattails so the wind would not let the bird float off and shoot the flyer from land from the left side of the line angle back left toward the open water as the go bird. I think hitting the birds from a barge with it going up and down in the wind and waves would be hard to hit the birds on a consistant basis. I would shoot them from land.

  3. #3
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    My flyer goes off the party barge in the open water as the go bird. The second is thrown from left to right, from the point area falling behind the cattails, directly behind the small water in the cattails, in the open on the other side. The open water go bird is not much of a mark and the meat would all be in memory, perseverance, and hunting ability on the memory bird. I like to see senior dogs get across fingers like that, especially if it is running water in the cattails, and make it a sort of water/land/water mark. I would not use a flyer as the cattail bird because of the variances in the fall. Falling in the cattails would maybe be easier than those falling on the other side as intended. I think a senior dog that has not been worked on reentry will get tied up in the cattails and not push through to the other side.
    Running the same set up in the reverse (dead bird in behind the cattails as go) and flyer in open water as memory would make it easier in my opinion but still a fair senior test. It does not make the marks that much easier, but having to handle to the memory that has floated or swam away is easier in open water.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  4. #4
    Senior Member Greg Seddon's Avatar
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    Ken,
    I donít see the purpose of the out to sea mark especially if the wind moves the bird. I would make my control bird (dead bird) the boat mark thrown tight to the tip of the cattails to make the dogs fight the wind factor to get to the bird and so you can see the dog all the way to the mark for the judges and handler. My go bird is a shot flyer or dead bird thrown into the shore or out side of the cattails again they must fight the wind to get to the mark. The go bird #2 should not be too much of a cheating mark if the bird lands where I have placed on your drawing.

    Ken you did not mention a blind at all in your test. Since there is very little to work with and the cattails get in the way of seeing the dog I placed the blind just in the first row of cattails near the pothole. I would run the blind first then the marks.
    [
    Greg Seddon
    CFC HRCH Gunner, Flight Interceptor SH
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    Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  5. #5
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    I would follow Greg's lead and move the boat. I don't like the idea of an out to sea bird with a strong wind and not being able to visualize the two marks in my mind. I also like to have one mark land "fairly" close to the line, usally first bird down since we are hunting. This could either be a flier or a winger bird to cause more excitement.

    First bird would be thrown from the boat which I would move in closer to the left side of line. Bird thrown left to right landing left of the line. Last bird down thrown out to the edge of cattails landing out on the point with a splash. But, enough in the cattails it won't move with the wind.

    The first bird down would have a strong enough attraction some dogs would retrieve this bird first. Second mark would be far enough out on point to make it less likely dogs that faded with the wind and hit land to the right of mark would get lost. But, not impossible.

    Decoys in front of the line would "help" seperate the marks.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dave Combs's Avatar
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    Bird 1 Shot flier somewhere between the pocket of water and solid ground

    Bird 2 In yo' face wipe-out

    I'd be looking to see
    1) Control & steadyness with the close go mark
    2) Memory and ability to fight the factors on the flier, ie running the bank, hunt the cover, avoid 2 gun stations

    From a logistics stand point, I try to avoid marks from a boat if at all possible. Too hard to re-bird, not to mention the safety issues.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    I like Dave Combs' #1 bird as an out-of-order flier. Lots of good suction there to get in trouble if they don't mark it well.
    Go ahead and throw the control bird out of the boat. (just make sure those guys keep their head down )
    JS
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  8. #8
    Senior Member TxFig's Avatar
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    The FIRST thing I'm going to say is: I hate this location for a senior (AKC) test. It's a big, wide open swim with virtually nothing to work with.

    Now that that's out of the way, here's what I would do, seeing as how me and my co-judge have been boxed into this corner...



    Any mark thrown on the right shore becomes a cheating test, so I avoid that like the plague it is. I don't really like the memory bird where it is as it's pretty much a "gimme" (after all, where else is the dog going to go?). But it's better than having them swim out to sea for a bird that is no longer there.

    Note on that blind - this assumes that we can see dogs through the cattails.... If we can't, I probably run a LAND blind with these water marks...
    --
    Chris Barnes

  9. #9
    Senior Member KNorman's Avatar
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    Memory bird in the pocket, go flyer off point...blind outside of guns. Send from boat deck on dry land (if possible)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS
    I like Dave Combs' #1 bird as an out-of-order flier. Lots of good suction there to get in trouble if they don't mark it well.
    JS
    I do as well, that is a good set up
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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