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Thread: Swimby - Would you force or use attrition?

  1. #1
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    Default Swimby - Would you force or use attrition?

    I have one right now I am working on swimby with that is just giving me fits. He was at the point of having had the first over pile taught and had made a successful swim by to the exit at the opposite end of the pond. Thought I was ready to teach the opposite over and exit. I had to take a couple days off due to weather. When I got back at it, the day was rainy and the water temp 58. I went ahead with those conditions and went to review what had been taught to that point before intro of the new over pile. Dog goes to back pile fine, will cast to the previous taught over fine, but then refused to reenter water from the over pile for the swimby. I tossed a bumper out in front of him and he will go to that but then he insists on coming in to the near bank. I try to stop him but he will not stop. When he gets to the bank I give a back trying to get him back in the water. He wont go unless I take the bumper and toss it back over his shoulder. He keeps trying to run the bank. It's like this all the way down to the exit. I have tried walking him back to the over pile and sit him, I walk down to the exit and call him to me but he refuses to reenter off that over pile, he wants to cheat and run the bank. When he does I whistle sit him and give an over to get back in the water. Nope, he wont have any part of that. I have been stuck like this for last two sessions. During the last session yesterday I ran down to the exit as he swam to the over pile. I twirled a bumper after he picked the bumper off the over pile and called him to me to entice his reentry off the bank and swim down the channel to me. He did comply by my doing that for the last three bumpers.

    I can keep running down to the exit and twirl a bumper to entice him to reenter at the over. I know he knows what I want, he has already did a successful swimby to the exit from that over pile.

    The water yesterday was 60 and it should be at least that again today. My question is would you use force at this point or keep using attrition?

  2. #2
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    "Would you force or use attrition?" and "the day was rainy and the water temp 58"

    I would wait until the water is in the upper 60's and work on a warm, sunny day.
    Jim Boyer KwickLabsii.com

  3. #3

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    What helps me is to give a dog a marker as to where you want him to go. I use electric white fence posts from Tractor supply to mark over piles ---cost 2-3 dollars . I eventually take them away

    1I would use attrition....I use white markers for the over piles to start with.....I use the white fence posts from tractor supply...I do a water t first. Then I will do say a right over over ....and I run to left over pile and call/receive dog dog........I make it really simple and black and white ---almost no way for the dog to run the bank at this point. I do this for maybe 2-3 sessions...with lots of sends to back piles also.

    Then ...I will send the dog to say a left over ----and try to get swimby to other over ---white tractor supply fence stakes are up---dog has a target where to go to-----If I have to---I will run to where I want dog to exit to keep dog in water ....usuall;y by now they will do it no problem. Big praise when they do the swimby. I do a couple of days of this and remove the white stakes --- and then proof in another place ... lots of sends to backpile also

    I am just an amateur training a few dogs tho

  4. #4

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    I agree with the water temp thing also...I am in SC...little warmer here.

    Also It may help to do a swimby on land with place markers or mattts for over piles/exit points---some call this disciplined casting I think.

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    Don't lose heart. There are many dogs like this that seemingly pick things up really quickly but then show you in subsequent sessions that they don't really have it. This is why in most cases you want to see a few successful sessions before moving on. You are doing a fine job simplifying and teaching the concept. I am not a fan of using collar pressure until you are sure the dog knows what you are asking and you are sure they are giving you a lack of effort. Only you can decide if these things are true. Continue showing the dog what you want and rewarding success and you will be fine.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwickLabs View Post
    "Would you force or use attrition?" and "the day was rainy and the water temp 58"

    I would wait until the water is in the upper 60's and work on a warm, sunny day.
    I wish we had water that reached the upper 60's I took water temp yesterday and it was 45...Maybe we will get to high 50's by summer's end ? I have never taken the water temps before so it will be fun to see.

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    Attrition. You are still teaching!!!

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    Senior Member dorkweed's Avatar
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    Swimby is like any other drill.....................teach it, then force it, and then re-enforce it.
    NRA LIFE MEMBER

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  9. #9
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    i would not be giving an over after a cheat around the end of swimby pond if I were standing at the opposite end (exit). I would be stopping them and walking them back.

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