The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Size of Derbies and vital statistics and some good old Fun

  1. #1
    Senior Member K92line's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    143

    Default Size of Derbies and vital statistics and some good old Fun

    The Feb./March issue of RFTN lists the number of derbies (other stakes as well) run, the starters and the average per stake.

    In 2006 avg. was 20.2 in 05, it was 22.2, 04, 22.4, 03 21.8, 02 31.2 (number of trials was lowest in 02) in 01 it 22.7.

    In general it seems that for about the last ten years or so they have been in the low twenties.

    In the west here we see somewhere around 18-28 dogs depending on where the trial is and if there are other competing trials that weekend.

    This is my first Derby dog and I have had an absolute ball. I have met wonderful folks from all over. Judges that donate their time and certainly try their very best. On a few occaisions I have not agreed with the set ups-like running into the wind or a cross wind coming accross the short bird on a two down the shore. But my guess is the wind shifted or something happened. I have always felt that the judges have done their best to put on a good Derby.

    It also interesting to note that many folks say the Derby doesn't matter. Or it matters only when you are running it, or who cares. There are many variations on the "it is a nothing stake theme". However for some of us it is our introduction into FT and although maybe down the road it won't matter. I still get a thrill watching these young dogs do some abolsolutely incredible stuff. I have found this to be pretty sophisticated. Some of the 4th series are very tough, or at least I think they are.

    I think the Derby is fun and I plan on enjoying myself and applauding these wonderful young animals and I hope when and if I ever have the good fortune to to attain that FC or AFC I remember how much fun it was to run the Derby and I remember NOT to tell someone with a Derby dog how insignificant it is and how much it DOESN't matter, even if in the grand scheme of things it doesn't.

    I know making the National Derby list is nothing (I think I have heard that at least 90 times), but to some of us it is our first time and personally I was thrilled and that first or second or third blue ribbon, heck I think that is pretty neat too.

    Isn't this supposed to be fun!!!!!!!

    Nancy with her first Derby dog Lily

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Balmoral, Manitoba
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Most people that say they don't believe in derbies are the ones that can't compete in them!!! I have heard it a million times......I am saving my dog for the major stakes. In real terms their dog is no good so they make excuses why they are not running.
    Good luck & have fun Nancy!!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Russ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA & Ronan, MT
    Posts
    1,462

    Default

    Derby is the funnest stake. Not much pressure on the handler as it is just point and shoot.

    Nancy, I assume I will see you this weekend at Lost Hills.

    Russ

  4. #4
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Ross
    Most people that say they don't believe in derbies are the ones that can't compete in them!!! I have heard it a million times......I am saving my dog for the major stakes. In real terms their dog is no good so they make excuses why they are not running.
    !

    This is not true!

    I'll use RTFer Kip as an example. With his current pack of dogs, he got them on the D list early, then quit running them. Those dogs could have amassed a bunch of Derby points but, I assume he was looking to the future and what rrunning a bunch of Derbies might do in creating bad habits and set his AA program back. I think his stratergy worked as his dogs have had AA success at an earlier than normal age.

    Many serious FTers feel the same way. Why create potential long-term problems for the sake of running Derbies? I know some very successful Fters that skip Derby altogether and have their dogs ready to QAA at 20 months or younger.

    It just depends on where ones priorities are. Most of today's top Derby dogs can make a smooth transition into AA. However, many feel running a bunch of Derbies may be detremental to their dog, especially if the have a Type A dog and many just don't want to spend the money, time and travel to run in a stakes that they just have no value in.

    I have a 7 month old and I can assure you that no matter what type of dog he is, he will not run more than 2 or 3 Derbies!
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  5. #5
    Senior Member K92line's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    143

    Default

    What if their training for the all age stakes continues as if they were not running the Derby at all?

    What if they don't run 30 Derbies, but run the ones that are local and no bad habits appear to be "creeping" up.

    What about the handler and the dog gaining "line experience". Seeeing new and dificult concepts in a trial environment?

    With limited experience I see that the answers to the above question are so dependent on each individual dog.

    I see some folks letting very bad behaviors continue just to get a green ribbon. I see other folks calling their dogs in for a tiny hunt. I see other's doing very nice work with their dogs and making good choices about what to run, what is OK behavior and what is not.

    It appears to me to be an individual choice based on the particular dog and the particular circumstances.

    Nancy

  6. #6
    Senior Member HarryWilliams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    1,224

    Default

    The right thing to do is what you enoy the most. The Derby is a very important stake for numerous reasons.

    Some folks drive to win over others displays their finer points as well. HPW
    "Sometimes we just gotta do what is right". Jerry 2006

    See ya in the field. HPW http://www.sagaciouskennel.com/

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lynn Moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Royal Oaks, CA
    Posts
    744

    Default

    Nancy....you are right about the Derby getting one "hooked" on the game and being a great introduction to the thrill of competition in this sport, but. I was told by a Canadian field trialer Jim Harvie, who had the #2 Derby dog at one time, that he would never campaign to that extent again because the dog was well behind in the AA stake competition once he got there, as Mr. Booty says. Another southern Californian, Mark Perrizo, told me that every time one enters any trial, one is "De-training" so with the young dogs it makes it all that much harder to teach comcepts.
    Which is why we quit after getting ten points.
    Just a few folks take on it.
    Lynn

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Santa Barbara, California
    Posts
    501

    Default Derby

    Hi Nancy:

    Keep having fun with Sweet Lily! Connie Cleveland wrote a great article called "Don't Steal My Joy" and she is so correct.

    Everyone has their own goals and aspirations. Each dog and handler is different. I envy you the pure delight and pleasure you are having with Lily---who is a fantastic dog that will definitely transition to AA without a backward glance.

    I ran one Derby with my first dog (trained by me) and got a 4th---that set the hook. In his first Qual, he got a JAM and I cried. Persons kidded me saying if I cried for a Qual JAM what would I do if I ever got a Blue! Guess what, I cried then also. I cried when he titled----not that I weep that much, but it was from joy.

    I would be included in those whose primary interest is in having an AA dog. Yet, it is so important to remember the happiness you received running your Derby dog. As Russ says, it is the "funnest" time.
    Whenever I judge a Derby or a Qual, I always remind myself of those days and how important it is to keep all of this in perspective. Maybe some of those dogs will never go on to AA, but let the dogs and their owners enjoy the bliss while they can.

    How many of you remember your glory days of high school or college sports? You never made it to the NBA or the NFL or competed in the Olympics, but would you forego having played them because of that.

    The Derby and Qual is where we attract new persons (and we greatly need new persons) to our sport. Let's not "steal their joy".

    Glenda

  9. #9
    Senior Member K92line's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    143

    Default

    Thanks for all the input. I guess it all comes down to individual decisions, the dog, the training and so on. No right or wrong way.

    I understand not "campaigning" a dog to bad habits. But, again depending on the dog, not sure that running some derbies is bad for all dogs even if the ultimate goal is and AA dog. I have personally learned a ton from running the Derby, it has been an invaluable learning experience for both me and my dog. I am grateful for this experience and opportunity.

    Nancy

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
    Posts
    4,953

    Default

    Nancy

    I think it's great that you are having a great time with your dog.

    Welcome to Field Trials!

    I echo what Glenda has said.

    Hope to see you around somewhere, sometime.

    I co-own a dog with Butch Green who judged your dog this Spring and said your dog is one fine animal.

    Much success to you in the future.

    Ted
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

Similar Threads

  1. 4 Derbies Cancelled in One Weekend
    By Kim Williams in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 04-09-2010, 07:55 PM
  2. Good news...bad news from the vet(now things are going to get fun)!!!
    By Geoff Buckius in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-03-2008, 07:30 PM
  3. Small Derbies
    By Tim West in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 05-07-2007, 09:10 PM
  4. Springwater Littermates Do Well In Derbies
    By ducksoup in forum Event Information
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-04-2007, 07:05 PM
  5. Do we still need Derbies?
    By Tim Carrion in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-01-2007, 04:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •