The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 29

Thread: Modern Training Philosophy?

  1. #1
    Member Doug Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Enderby, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    86

    Default Modern Training Philosophy?

    Nine Basic Principles For Successful Handling:

    1: Every dog is an individual.
    2: Never lie to a dog.
    3: Whenever possible, use a positive instead of a negative approach.
    4: Never finish a training session with a failure.
    5: Stress the fundamentals.
    6: Teach only one thing at a time.
    7: Don't be afraid to experiment.
    8: Balance correction with praise.
    9: There is nothing quite so valuable as a day off.

    Sound like some great new training philosophy? No, this was written by Martha Covington (Martha Covington Thorne) in her book 'Handling Your Dog For Show, Obedience and Field Trials', published by Doubleday in August of 1979. Yes, that's right, 1979! I first met Martha at a Montreal Gun Dog Club trial in the early 60's; I think her 9 points are very valid today.
    ...Bopper

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Most of those are pretty good concepts.

    tt
    mrgd

    DISCLAIMER
    "You may not think I'm funny but I do, please don't take anything I say seriously because it's probably not."

  3. #3
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brookings, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRGD
    Most of those are pretty good concepts.

    tt
    Which do you think aren't so good?
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Experimenting can backfire, though I'm not opposed per se', but the new idea might be a really bad one.
    mrgd

    DISCLAIMER
    "You may not think I'm funny but I do, please don't take anything I say seriously because it's probably not."

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Aubrey TX
    Posts
    5,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRGD
    Experimenting can backfire, though I'm not opposed per se', but the new idea might be a really bad one.
    You won't know until you try. That's the chance you take when being a true trainer. We want dogs to take a chance, try and make mistakes. We should allow ourselves the same luxury.

    Not all dogs stay to the tried and true.

    Also, how does a dog know your lying? Do they really think that way?

    You gotta crack a few eggs to get a omelet regards,

    Angie

  6. #6
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,355

    Default

    [quote="Angie B"]
    Quote Originally Posted by MRGD
    Also, how does a dog know your lying? Do they really think that way?

    Angie
    I don't know how they think, but my gut feeling is: follow this rule. Maybe because dogs are tuned into all kinds of subtleties we don't know we're communicating, or because they notice that the consequences don't match what we led them to expect, it seems like we lose credibility fast.

    Amy Dahl

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Aubrey TX
    Posts
    5,880

    Default

    [quote="afdahl"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B
    Quote Originally Posted by MRGD
    Also, how does a dog know your lying? Do they really think that way?

    Angie
    I don't know how they think, but my gut feeling is: follow this rule. Maybe because dogs are tuned into all kinds of subtleties we don't know we're communicating, or because they notice that the consequences don't match what we led them to expect, it seems like we lose credibility fast.

    Amy Dahl
    I think alot of what we teach them doesn't make sense to them. How could it? Especially in the teaching phase. Then add to that how we false line at trials or give a cast that isn't literal to get the dog to the bird? Then where are you? If the phrase "Don't lie to your dog" has any credability then we would have to find a whole new way to train for this game.

    The phrase is stupid and irrelevant in my opinion. Dog training is anything but that simplistic.....

    FWIW

    Angie

  8. #8
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    The phrase is stupid and irrelevant in my opinion. Dog training is anything but that simplistic.....
    Angie stated it much stronger than I would have, but she's 100% right.

    9: There is nothing quite so valuable as a day off.
    Many many of the dogs I see suffer from to many days off.

    Over off the point regards,
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  9. #9
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,355

    Default

    I never false line a dog, and IMO "literal casting" is an abstraction that has no bearing on this issue. I give the dog the cast that I think will get him going in the direction I want.

    I have been known to try to tempt a puppy back by showing him another dummy, and of course they rarely fall for that a second time.

    I can't think of another situation where I intentionally deceive a dog. IMO the advice on the original list is good.

    Amy Dahl

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Aubrey TX
    Posts
    5,880

    Default

    I never false line a dog, and IMO "literal casting" is an abstraction that has no bearing on this issue. I give the dog the cast that I think will get him going in the direction I want.
    Interesting,,,, If the dog takes a literal cast, it should put them on the bird shouldn't it? That at least is why I use it. In the teaching process that hardly happens so I must be lying to my dog. Get my drift??

    I can't think of another situation where I intentionally deceive a dog. IMO the advice on the original list is good.
    Dirt clod drill, cast off the point drill, pattern blinds that have casts used from one blind to the next.... The list is endless in the literal sense of the phrase, lying to the dog.....

    You never have false lined a dog at a trial when the factors were extreme and the test told you that if you didn't false line that you weren't going to survive much less succeed at the test???? Come on..... :P It happens every weekend... Heck I've watch many a national where it happened. It had to happen otherwise they weren't going to complete the test in a way that was going to get them called back.

    Nothing but a bunch of liars regards...

    Angie

Similar Threads

  1. Are you a member of The Modern Militia
    By BrianW in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-20-2009, 06:23 PM
  2. A modern parable....
    By TXduckdog in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-03-2008, 03:07 AM
  3. What is your political philosophy? GDG
    By Paul Johnson in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-01-2008, 08:56 AM
  4. Puppies, breeders, farmers, mills, and philosophy?
    By MRGD in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-01-2008, 07:58 PM
  5. Australia V USA philosophy of marking
    By stoney in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 10-20-2007, 06:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •