Getting confused with Angle backs and overs
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Thread: Getting confused with Angle backs and overs

  1. #1
    Senior Member c.j.'s Avatar
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    Default Getting confused with Angle backs and overs

    I have really been trying to make sure I am giving him exact arm placement being straight up for backs and 45degree for angle backs and hand at waste level for overs. I can do backs and angle and he is fine, angle and over and he is fine. Mix them all together randomly he starts taking an over for a right angle back. this is all done on a half wagon wheel remote sit bumpers about 20 yds away I am 10yds from dog. he knows where the piles are. used some white poles that helped a little. I have done this drill a lot, any advice?
    HRCH JC's Buckmaster Classic

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    Senior Member bshaf's Avatar
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    In Dennis Voigt's 25 drills he mentions to combine casts in groups: over right right angle back, over right. It's meant to teach the difference between those casts.

    I know there are days my dog is thinking too much and days he spins and locks on the angle back bumper when I gave him a back cast. I really love seeing the lightbulb when he starts toward the wrong bumper but corrects himself. Those are the good days, some days are still wtf!!! Keep at it and stay calm. If you get wound up, he's likely to do the same and will be keyed up not wanting to make a mistake.
    Brett Shaffer

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    Senior Member c.j.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bshaf View Post
    In Dennis Voigt's 25 drills he mentions to combine casts in groups: over right right angle back, over right. It's meant to teach the difference between those casts.

    I know there are days my dog is thinking too much and days he spins and locks on the angle back bumper when I gave him a back cast. I really love seeing the lightbulb when he starts toward the wrong bumper but corrects himself. Those are the good days, some days are still wtf!!! Keep at it and stay calm. If you get wound up, he's likely to do the same and will be keyed up not wanting to make a mistake.
    that was the drill/order I was going in, the problem comes when I get both those mastered and I try and combine all three. on a cold blind you might see all three
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    He thinks he is doing a single T?

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    Quote Originally Posted by c.j. View Post
    I have really been trying to make sure I am giving him exact arm placement being straight up for backs and 45degree for angle backs and hand at waste level for overs. I can do backs and angle and he is fine, angle and over and he is fine. Mix them all together randomly he starts taking an over for a right angle back. this is all done on a half wagon wheel remote sit bumpers about 20 yds away I am 10yds from dog. he knows where the piles are. used some white poles that helped a little. I have done this drill a lot, any advice?
    Use attrition and handle him to the correct pile. Don't recall him, that could create other problems(no going, popping, spinning, etc). Praise when he gets it right. Make sure you give deliberate casts, not too fast. Also, make sure dog is not auto casting on first movement. Once he focuses on your cast and you're giving a good deliberate cast, he should start to improve with repetition. If he takes the wrong cast, give an immediate whistle to communicate "No, that's not right", and then handle

  7. #6
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    what do you do with your feet?
    How about verbal commands?
    I taught my chessie (several years now) what the command 'angle' meant. Worked for him. He would take a 45 degree angle if I said 'angle' before the cast (yes, before, maybe by a half second).

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    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    You may not be aware of what you're actually doing with your body, arms, legs, mouth/whistle. Maybe you do. But....

    For casting purposes:
    Before stopping dog
    .Have whistle in mouth.
    .Be in spot you need to cast from Before blowing. That is, all the running around, jockying for position etc is done.
    .....Standing still, chest square to dog
    .....Whistle in mouth
    .....Both hands in Prayer position in front of chest
    Cast using arm only. Especially for drill work avoid moving feet, stepping or walking.
    Just stick your arm out, slowly, without stabbing the sky.
    Arm position.
    Imagine standing with your chest/nose against a wall. When you cast, arm should be in same plane as wall.
    Many folks cast with hand reaching Through wall. not good.
    Only time I can think casting arm may be in different plane or body not square to dog is in competition situations where arm/body may be in shadow but held at different angle becomes sun lit.
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    Senior Member captainjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    what do you do with your feet?
    How about verbal commands?
    I taught my chessie (several years now) what the command 'angle' meant. Worked for him. He would take a 45 degree angle if I said 'angle' before the cast (yes, before, maybe by a half second).
    I guess your pup picked left or right on his own?
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    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    I was taught when teaching this drill to use verbal backs and overs and silent angle backs to help the dog differentiate the casts. It has always worked well for me.

  11. #10
    Senior Member c.j.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Main View Post
    I was taught when teaching this drill to use verbal backs and overs and silent angle backs to help the dog differentiate the casts. It has always worked well for me.
    that is what I use too
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