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E-collar Stimulation Levels 101???

19K views 76 replies 39 participants last post by  jd6400 
#1 ·
OK guys and gals,

I'm hoping that one of you can answer this.

I've heard that the stimulation levels on a collar -let's say a TT Pro 500 in "nick" mode, overlap... I've also heard they stairstep up linearly (which I don't think I buy)

Who can tell me: Is it A)

From low to high 1 low, 1 med, 1 high, 2 low, 2 med, 2 high, 3 low.....

Or is it B)

There's some overlap and a 3 high is higher than a 4 low (as an example)

I've heard it both ways.

Is there any sort of calibrated settings that would quantify the specified electricity "doses" for each level of stimulation? (I realize that there will be ranges and there will be variations from unit to unit and likely from brand new perfect batteries versus old worn ones)

Thanks!

Chris
 
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#32 ·
Tri-Tronics Stimulation Levels

Chris,

You asked, "Is there any sort of calibrated settings that would quantify the specified electricity "doses" for each level of stimulation?"

I asked this question of Tri-Tronics many years ago and never received a definitive answer. I have collar conditioned approximately
10-20 dogs/year for the last 10 years using Tri-Tronics collars and from this experience have reached, what I believe is, an informed conclusion. From the dogs reaction/perception, it is not a linear stair-step from 1 low, 1 med, 1 high, 2 low, 2 med, 2 high, 3 low..... It is linear from 1 low, 2 low, 3 low..... or 1 med, 2 med, 3 medium..... This applies whether in the continuous mode or the momentary mode. As others have mentioned, the dogs have a stronger reaction to a high 3 vs. a low 4 or a stronger reaction to a high 4 vs. a low 5 in both continuous or momentary modes.

In regard to tapping the button while in momentary mode, it's not the best technique as a quick tap may result in no correction.
 
#33 ·
Chris, Tri Tronics momentary setting duration info.

Ok, I was a little amazed at what I was told....

The shortest duration on a G2 [lower black button] on the momentary setting is 6 micro seconds. That's 6 millionths of a second!

[1 micro second = 1 millionth of a second.]

Upper balck is 36 micro seconds and high [both black buttons] is a big jump to 216 micro seconds.

The fastest they've ever been able to record with a quick tap and release in the continous mode is 15 hundredths of a second. So much for a quick tap being "like" the momentary setting.

That's straight from the engineering dept at TT.
 
#35 ·
Alec,

Thank you VERY much!

I have not taken the time to call TT and ask since speaking with one of their frontline "product specialits" who was darn good, but I can see why this individual would not have the nuts and bolts of the science.

So, I've taken your figures and put them on a sheet of paper:

From a "length of correction" standpoint:

Low Momentary = 0.000006 seconds
Medium Momentary = 0.000036 seconds
High Momentary = 0.000216 seconds
Fastest Humanly
Possible Continuous
"nick" = 0.150000 seconds

This means that a "nick" on continuous lasts 694 times longer than a high "momentary" on a G2 TT Pro 500!!!!!!

THAT explains a LOT in how we and our dogs perceive the stimulation!

*************************************************

So the above is all "duration"....the other piece is the "intensity" discussion.

Is it accurate that in "momentary", all levels of stimulation equal the "High - Continuous" level for that particular setting? In other words, a Low momentary 3 is the same as delivering a high continuous 3 for 6 microseconds.

What would really be neat would be to have the quantified "volts" (I became an INdustrial Engineer and bailed out of mechanical and chemical disciplines over OHMS, AMPS, and Thermodynamics!) or whatever the proper measurement is for intensity settings on the G2 500 for

Cont. versus Momentary on each dial setting. To my mind, that would really help.

***************************************************

Eggheads who remain eggheads post-degree...( I took my degree in 87 and ran straight to "Tech Sales"!) Are my above numbers correct, assuming the stats given to Alec are right?

Thanks again Alec! I'd hand the transmitter over for Bus-turd to you in a heartbeat.

Chris
 
#36 ·
Is it accurate that in "momentary", all levels of stimulation equal the "High - Continuous" level for that particular setting? In other words, a Low momentary 3 is the same as delivering a high continuous 3 for 6 microseconds.
As I understand it, yes. Continous intensity [at a given level] is the same as the intensity while using the monentary setting at all three durations [but a hell of a lot longer!]
 
#38 ·
Re: Chris, Tri Tronics momentary setting duration info.

Alec@snowboundkennels said:
The fastest they've ever been able to record with a quick tap and release in the continous mode is 15 hundredths of a second. So much for a quick tap being "like" the momentary setting.

That's straight from the engineering dept at TT.
So, I've been trying to beat thier record for an hour. I strapped that collar on my arm, got a stop watch and transmitter and been going at beatting that record. I haven't done it yet, but I got all day....

/Paul
 
#39 ·
The TT boys need to see my old man on this subject. I distinctly remember that 1 microsecond is equal to the time that elapses between smarting off to the old man and the first punch landing.

For reference, a flourescent light is "blinking" at 60 HZ which is right on the threshhold for most himans to detect the flicker. That would be .01666 seconds or about 16,666 microseconds.


.15 seconds indeed regards


Bubba
 
#40 ·
nnnnooooo llllluuuuuccccckkkkkk yyyyyeeeeetttttt beeeaaatttttinnnngggg theee rrrreeeecccoooorddddd. buuubbuuuuaaaaa iiii''mmmm ggggooonnnnnaaaa nneeeeedddddd mmmmoooorrrrreeeee beeeeeerrrrrr Ffrrrriiiidaaaayyyyy


/////pppaaauuullllll
 
#41 ·
What a dumbass!!!

Ya strapped the collar on the arm that you are running the stopwatch with dint ya?


Just put the collar around your neck like educated folk and everything will be fine, trust me on this. Also it's easier to get an accurate measurement when the knob on the transmitter points to the little 6. Mash both buttons on the collar for the best measurement.

Gotta teach some folks everything regards

BUbba
 
#43 ·
Gun_Dog2002 said:
nnnnooooo llllluuuuuccccckkkkkk yyyyyeeeeetttttt beeeaaatttttinnnngggg theee rrrreeeecccoooorddddd. buuubbuuuuaaaaa iiii''mmmm ggggooonnnnnaaaa nneeeeedddddd mmmmoooorrrrreeeee beeeeeerrrrrr Ffrrrriiiidaaaayyyyy


/////pppaaauuullllll
So how's that working out??

Besides, Friday is my birthday and I plan on being Waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy too drive to drunk.

7/7/7 ain't diddly, I'm waiting for 13/13/13 regards

Bubba
 
#44 ·
I would love to see the G2 Pro 500 voltages at each of the settings.

Honestly, for the average turd-kickin' dog trainer like myself, I'm feeling like with all these different stimulation levels, ...well, like I did in the 4th grade when I saved up my money.

I saved up and went to Knabe's Sports Center at the Monroeville Mall and bought myself a Mossberg 10 speed bike. I don't know about the rest of you, but I found that as a 10 year old kid with 10 speeds, I probably used about three speeds at the most. The rest was just a bunch of confusing settings in the middle!

Like a good buddy told me, only use the amount of "correction" needed and don't worry about what the rheostat says for dog A versus dog B...that makes a lot of sense to me.

Chris
 
#45 ·
To tell the truth, it will require a pretty high tech ocilloscope and some time messing with it to get the precise data. Even with the right test setup and precision test gear, the data is valid ONLY for that particular unit, manufacturing tolerances and all that yada yada.
Practical matter is that I suspect that most folks use the 2 or 3 gears that you are talking and the occaisional "NEVER DO THAT AGAIN" button. In all honesty, and bear in mind that I'm prolly the biggest cookie trainer EVER, one button will do. Atrition (NO!!! HEEEEERRRREEEE!!!! Bang!!!, Let's do that again until you get it right) is plenty and more than that is just for revenge.

Can we get back to the GDG now, I'm bored already regards

Bubba
 
#46 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
I would love to see the G2 Pro 500 voltages at each of the settings.

Honestly, for the average turd-kickin' dog trainer like myself, I'm feeling like with all these different stimulation levels, ...well, like I did in the 4th grade when I saved up my money.

I saved up and went to Knabe's Sports Center at the Monroeville Mall and bought myself a Mossberg 10 speed bike. I don't know about the rest of you, but I found that as a 10 year old kid with 10 speeds, I probably used about three speeds at the most. The rest was just a bunch of confusing settings in the middle!

Like a good buddy told me, only use the amount of "correction" needed and don't worry about what the rheostat says for dog A versus dog B...that makes a lot of sense to me.

Chris

Isn't that the store they got the guns from in The Night of The Living Dead?

In regards as to how much correction, we have in western Pa. a TT rep. He says when used correctly your dog should not vocalize. If he does your most likely using to much force.

Trying to figure out why one day he vocalizes and the next he runs through the collar like he doesn't feel it, all on the same setting.
 
#47 ·
Bubba said:
So how's that working out??

Besides, Friday is my birthday and I plan on being Waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy too drive to drunk.

7/7/7 ain't diddly, I'm waiting for 13/13/13 regards

Bubba

Oh man, what a day. I worked on this all day and Shelby made me quit when my hair looked like this....



I've come to the conclusion that the TT boys might be right. I tried all the different levels for a while each and its damn hard to hit that button any faster. Guess I'll just have to be content as the record holder for holding onto the electric fence surrounding the bull pen the longest....birthday huh? Does this mean we get to upgrade to coors light or are we still gonna drink Busch all night?

/Paul
 
#48 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
I would love to see the G2 Pro 500 voltages at each of the settings.

Honestly, for the average turd-kickin' dog trainer like myself, I'm feeling like with all these different stimulation levels, ...well, like I did in the 4th grade when I saved up my money.

I saved up and went to Knabe's Sports Center at the Monroeville Mall and bought myself a Mossberg 10 speed bike. I don't know about the rest of you, but I found that as a 10 year old kid with 10 speeds, I probably used about three speeds at the most. The rest was just a bunch of confusing settings in the middle!

Like a good buddy told me, only use the amount of "correction" needed and don't worry about what the rheostat says for dog A versus dog B...that makes a lot of sense to me.

Chris
My rule of thumb.

Once CCed, the intensity level is decided by the dogs reaction, not a "number".

On a low nick I want to see the dog respond quickly to command enforcement but not be vocal.

Medium will get a fast responce with perhaps a noticeable sign the dogs been nicked. ie. twitch/blink or a little "squeek!"

High's a big jump on a G2 and I use it when a well schooled dog has blow off a command, perhaps for the second time after an earlier nick a very short time ago. If the dogs a novice in the transition, I'll go up 2 levels and use the low or medium depending on the doggy.

After the high nick I'd expect to see a VERY good response on low as the dog is now some what sensitive to the collar.

Rule of thumb #2 is never burn your dog at the same level more then twice in a row in short order. i.e. As your heeling the dog gets ahead of you: Heel/low nick and back he comes. Ten feet later he's ahead again: Heel/nick and back he comes. At this point I'd have my finger on the trigger for a medium nick if he barges again because if the first two didn't get it a third at the same level get it won't either.

Experienced dogs may not get the same repeat chances as a novice dog or one in a CC transition.

This is a BASIC approach but a safe one for novice collars users.

Where oh where is my 8:30 client?
 
#49 ·
Bubba is correct. A regular test meter will not read the voltage. I will mess around and see if I can figure it out. I do have access to the tools to eventually get the info.

I have always been curious about the jumps in perceived intensity from medium to high to low on the next level up.

Jeff
 
#51 ·
Another bit of information I got from the TT rep at the Lardy seminar this summer is that the frequency changes between between low, medium and high when the switch is on continuous. The signal amplitude (voltage output) is set with the dial and the signal frequency increases from low to medium to high with the two buttons.

Another interesting thing he had was the "truth box". It displays when the handler corrects the dog and the setting used on the collar. This is useful for determining if the handler really corrected the dog when they say they did, and vice versa. Mike was able to watch what the handlers were doing to the dogs and not depend on what the handlers said they did. ; - )


Steve
 
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