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E-collar Stimulation Levels 101???

19K views 76 replies 39 participants last post by  jd6400 
#1 ·
OK guys and gals,

I'm hoping that one of you can answer this.

I've heard that the stimulation levels on a collar -let's say a TT Pro 500 in "nick" mode, overlap... I've also heard they stairstep up linearly (which I don't think I buy)

Who can tell me: Is it A)

From low to high 1 low, 1 med, 1 high, 2 low, 2 med, 2 high, 3 low.....

Or is it B)

There's some overlap and a 3 high is higher than a 4 low (as an example)

I've heard it both ways.

Is there any sort of calibrated settings that would quantify the specified electricity "doses" for each level of stimulation? (I realize that there will be ranges and there will be variations from unit to unit and likely from brand new perfect batteries versus old worn ones)

Thanks!

Chris
 
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#2 ·
FWIW I have found that the duration of the nick (the low, med, high) its at least as important as the number. That is to say for my dog a 2 high is a tougher correction then a 3 low.

I believe the 1-5 controls the juice, but the low, med high controls the duration of the juice in the nick mode (somehting like 1/100, 1/10th and 1 full second)? Continous is a whole different thing and I rarely use it.
 
#3 ·
Chis,

It depends on the make and model of collar. They all don't work the same. You'll need to research each of the collars you're interested in to determine how each of them work.

In the case of a Pro 500, the levels vary (low, medium, high) in the continuous mode. In the momentary mode the level remains the same, but the duration of the nick varies (nick, bump, burn).
 
#4 ·
I am not sure about the levels scaling, but we only use continuous. Timing is everything with the collar, and you need to be able to control that down to the nanosecond. :lol:
 
#5 ·
msdaisey said:
I am not sure about the levels scaling, but we only use continuous. Timing is everything with the collar, and you need to be able to control that down to the nanosecond. :lol:
:shock: So you only burn your dog? You don't take advantage of the numerous benefits of the momentary stimulation?
 
#6 ·
Well, i've discussed this numerous times regarding TT collars in particular and while I can't fully explain the electrical aspect of it, what I can tell ya is that a high 6 does not overlap with a low 1. Hope that helps some, its all a simple ******* can fully understand.

/Paul
 
#8 ·
Lab-Kid said:
Put it on your arm and try it out! Everyone should know exactly what correction they are subjecting their dog to.
I agree... I think we all - human and canine have our own thresholds of pain. But the best way to put ourselves in the shoes of another is to see how we personally would interpret it.

I've zapped myself all the way up to the highest level I've given my dog.... But I'm looking for a little "science" or a little engineering design knowledge, if anyone on the board has it.

Chris
 
#72 ·
Why not test the current with a multitester? That would tell you exactly what current is being delivered at each setting. What the dog feels is a different story.
 
#9 ·
Not trying to be smark alecky, but have you contacted TriTronics? They might be the best ones to give you an explanation.

No smart donkeys :wink: in Maine regards,

Andy
 
#10 ·
Andy Carlson said:
Not trying to be smark alecky, but have you contacted TriTronics? They might be the best ones to give you an explanation.

No smart donkeys :wink: in Maine regards,

Andy
Yes, I spoke with the product specialist a while ago....

I really do need to have another discussion.

I was told that it is a linear stairstep or progression with no overlap. I was told that the specific, quantified levels were either not readily available or were considered proprietary... You're right though, I need to give them another call.

Chris - an "Amish Trainer" 1978 - 2007 ...not looking back.....

:wink:
 
#11 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
Chris - an "Amish Trainer" 1978 - 2007 ...not looking back.....

:wink:
Glad you have no regrets about joining us in the Un-Amish world! :D

Andy
 
#12 ·
Chris,

I think there is some overlap to the stimulation levels with the TT collars. I have a Pro 500 G2 and I often will get a bigger response from a dog on a high correction (say High 2) as compared to a low 3. I also very rarely use the momentary correction on my collar. I can give a quicker "nick" if needed than the momentary switch will and can also give a longer correction if needed without having to worry about flipping the switch from momentary to continuous.

I feel a lot of people who are new to collar work do a lot more nagging with the collar than actually correcting with the collar. I am all for giving the dog the benefit of the doubt in most situations, but when a correction is called for, I want to make sure the dog gets the point. I have found that over the years, I use the collar a lot less frequently than I used to, but when I do use it, I get a better response to the correction. I feel that I use to "nag" the dog with lots of low level stimulation that a lot of dogs would just shrug off. Now, when a correction is called for, I use the upper level that the dogs work on, make my point and move on. Seems to work for me.

Joe
 
#13 ·
All I know is it's a BIG jump from mid to high on a G2 in momentary mode.

I'll use low and med but would drop one intensity level to use high. Beacuse of that I pretty much just use low med and if I need more I go up in intensity, then low, high, etc.

Let me speak to someone "in the back" and see what I can find out.
 
#14 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
OK guys and gals,

I'm hoping that one of you can answer this.

I've heard that the stimulation levels on a collar -let's say a TT Pro 500 in "nick" mode, overlap... I've also heard they stairstep up linearly (which I don't think I buy)

Who can tell me: Is it A)

From low to high 1 low, 1 med, 1 high, 2 low, 2 med, 2 high, 3 low.....

Or is it B)

There's some overlap and a 3 high is higher than a 4 low (as an example)

I've heard it both ways.

Is there any sort of calibrated settings that would quantify the specified electricity "doses" for each level of stimulation? (I realize that there will be ranges and there will be variations from unit to unit and likely from brand new perfect batteries versus old worn ones)

Thanks!

Chris
In "Nick" mode they do NOT overlap.

In "Nick" mode the differnce in a low, med, and high is the duration of the nick. I heard high was 1/10 of a second, med was 1/100 and low was 1/1000.

In the continuous mode, I really don't know. My impression was that a 4 low was higher than a 3 high. But I can't say for sure.
 
#16 ·
thunderdog said:
I can give a quicker "nick" if needed than the momentary switch will and can also give a longer correction if needed without having to worry about flipping the switch from momentary to continuous.
There ain't no way you can give a "quicker" nick, nor more consistently on continous. :wink:

I agree about switching from momentary to continuous.

A lot is what you get used to. I like the 200 or flyway. I can use the buttons for a "Nick" at what I feel is appropriate and aother button for a "burn" on continuous when that is appropriate withoug changing anything.

thunderdog said:
I feel a lot of people who are new to collar work do a lot more nagging with the collar than actually correcting with the collar. I am all for giving the dog the benefit of the doubt in most situations, but when a correction is called for, I want to make sure the dog gets the point. I have found that over the years, I use the collar a lot less frequently than I used to, but when I do use it, I get a better response to the correction. I feel that I use to "nag" the dog with lots of low level stimulation that a lot of dogs would just shrug off. Now, when a correction is called for, I use the upper level that the dogs work on, make my point and move on. Seems to work for me.
I also agree about this part. It is suposed to be aversive.
 
#17 ·
Allright...last question and then I'll promise to call TT to get their input.

If we agree that the difference on a TT Pro 500 G2 IN MOMENTARY is the "duration" from low - to med - to high....

I CC'd according to Lardy's video using continuous and just "tapped" the button (yes, I tested it on my ownself first)

So, I got in the habit of just tapping.

Now that I'm through "basics" and into "transition" I use 99.9% of the time "momentary". I've still gotten in the habit of tapping the button(s). So I depress the button(s) identically whether in low, med, or high momentary.

Is it possible that in "high" momentary, the collar is still giving off stimulus after I release the button, or is it that the low momentary is so incredibly brief that it is not humanly possible to tap and release that quickly?
 
#18 ·
Steve Hester said:
msdaisey said:
I am not sure about the levels scaling, but we only use continuous. Timing is everything with the collar, and you need to be able to control that down to the nanosecond. :lol:
:shock: So you only burn your dog? You don't take advantage of the numerous benefits of the momentary stimulation?
Yes, everyone in my training group totally fries all of their dogs with the collar. :roll: That's why one was just a NAFC finalist (and trained by a man who has previously won the stake). :roll: :roll: :roll: 8)

We change the levels, but you can only get the exact 'stimulation' you need by being in control of when a 'signal' is sent.
 
#19 ·
While you are on the blower with them, it would be interesting to know if the buttons are "one shot" and if so, how long the delay is before they are active again. For instance, if you hit both to get the "High" and then release the buttons non-simultaneously is it possible to get a subsequent Low or medium on the way out.

Stupid question regards

Bubba
 
#20 ·
Bubba said:
While you are on the blower with them, it would be interesting to know if the buttons are "one shot" and if so, how long the delay is before they are active again. For instance, if you hit both to get the "High" and then release the buttons non-simultaneously is it possible to get a subsequent Low or medium on the way out.

Stupid question regards

Bubba
Not a stupid question. The delay is part of the reason we use the continuous mode.

Turn your collar on and up to 6. Put the collar up to your ear, and start pressing buttons at different settings You can hear the difference in timing and the delay if you need to repeat the momentary. And, yes, I have burned myself with the collar, both intentionally and not!
 
#21 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
Now that I'm through "basics" and into "transition" I use 99.9% of the time "momentary". I've still gotten in the habit of tapping the button(s). So I depress the button(s) identically whether in low, med, or high momentary.

Is it possible that in "high" momentary, the collar is still giving off stimulus after I release the button, or is it that the low momentary is so incredibly brief that it is not humanly possible to tap and release that quickly?
1. It is not humanly possible to tap and release that quickly.

2. Tapping the buttons, can cause some inconsistent resposnes. I'm not sure which models or modes. But Lardy was trying to demonstrate this with a 500 G2 and couldn't do it but he could with his 500 XLS in momentary. Sometimes he'd get a nick, sometimes nothing. It didn't seem to do it in continuous mode.

3. Trying to tap a High, which is both buttons, is even more complicated and inconsistent.

Hope that helps.
 
#22 ·
In this digital age, I agree they don't overlap unless Tritronics software is written to overlap (& they say it's not), but it may not be mathmatically linear either (not that it is crucial). Tritronics does say 6 is hotter than 5, 5 is hotter than 4 , etc & that with each level you get low, med & high.

I think we observe a preceived overlap or inconsistent correction application due to variables completely outside of the e-collar. The dog is usually moving, so the dog's hair provides a variable resistance. The dog's neck varies somewhat in size do to slight variations in weight, muscle tone, momentary stress etc in relation to the e-collar fit so the e-collar is more or less effective in transmitting the nick/burn. In the water a better conduction path is provided. All variables outside of the e-collar itself.
 
#23 ·
Just got out my G2 for some very unscientific testing. I can match or beat the high momentary setting by tapping the buttons. This was determined by hooking up a test light to the electrodes. As Doug stated, the difference in low, medium and high momentary is duration. From what I can see with a test light, the low momentary nick would be practically useless at anything but the highest level to get any kind of correction.

I got no inconsistent reponses with the G2 will tapping the buttons. However, I did run the battery down on my collar while playing with it. I am also happy to report that I managed to not give myself a correction while playing with the collar.

Joe
 
#24 ·
I sure like the new on/off button on the collar. On my old one you had to hold the stim button down until the collar turned off. One time it was giving me some trouble and I ended up turning the collar up to 6 while trying to turn it off. All I can say is it hurt like hell, I vocalized and I could actually hear the spark as it welded my hand to the contacts. :shock:
 
#25 ·
This is how it works with the Pro 500 --

First you have five levels of power, that is a given.

Second you have three intensities. Intensities are based on pulses.

Low intensity (bottom button alone) the pulses are more spread apart, might be represented by this: - - - - <pulse> - - - - <pulse> - - - - <pulse>

Medium intensity (top button alone) the pulses come closer together, might be represented by this: - - <pulse> - - <pulse> - - <pulse>

High intensity (top and bottom button together) is LITERALLY just that, the top buttons intensity and the bottom buttons intensity combined together and might look like this: - <pulse> - <pulse> - <pulse>

So to answer your question "is there overlap?" Not really, because there are very real differences between the levels of power, and between power and intensity.

As Zack said a 3-high might feel worse to the dog than a 4-low because it is more intense, despite the 4-low having more power.

This is one of the things that is so ingenious about these tools. Not all dogs are the same. Some can deal with the power, some can't. Some can't deal with the intensity, some can. You can thoughtfully dial in the tool specifically to your dog.
 
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