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Thread: Breeding the dysplastic high performers

  1. #1
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Default Breeding the dysplastic high performers

    To continue on the Risky Business Ruby Thread.

    When you look at the basics it becomes clear that breeding is a risk-reward relationshhip. Breeding dogs like Corky (known dysplastic) the reward was a top performing dog while the risk was a dysplastic dog. The number of Corky offspring becoming top performers made the rewards worth the risks.

    As time progressed breeders became aware that OFA and other tests could reduce the risks of producing dysplastic dogs. However, total removal is not the rule but the generally approved practice. Occasionally a top performing individual is identified that carries a genetic defect. Removing these individuals from the breeding population might have an adverse effect of the overall population.

    I advocate testing the breeding population, but not total removal of these animals. Each breeder must measure the risks, but for most there are dogs in the population that don't carry the risks.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

  2. #2
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breeding the dysplastic high performers

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Halstead
    To continue on the Risky Business Ruby Thread.

    When you look at the basics it becomes clear that breeding is a risk-reward relationshhip. Breeding dogs like Corky (known dysplastic) the reward was a top performing dog while the risk was a dysplastic dog. The number of Corky offspring becoming top performers made the rewards worth the risks.

    As time progressed breeders became aware that OFA and other tests could reduce the risks of producing dysplastic dogs. However, total removal is not the rule but the generally approved practice. Occasionally a top performing individual is identified that carries a genetic defect. Removing these individuals from the breeding population might have an adverse effect of the overall population.

    I advocate testing the breeding population, but not total removal of these animals. Each breeder must measure the risks, but for most there are dogs in the population that don't carry the risks.
    Just don't plan on advertising that breeding here, no matter how good it is.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  3. #3
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    We don't at present have an individual pesent that is producing at a level to take the Risk, but if the rewards were so high breeders wouldn't pass the chance. Imagine a stud so great that a large percent became FC's that dog would be in demand regardless of genetic problems.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

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    Senior Member Last Frontier Labs's Avatar
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    But is this practice really good for the overall health of the breed???
    Yes, you will see alot of talented dogs produced, but in return, you will also see large numbers of puppies with whatever ailed the dogs that were bred.
    The majority of labrador owners do not have the funds for hip/elbow/ccl surgeries. So what happens to these dogs???
    Additionally, what if these progeny are bred without regard to their health issues?
    I'm not saying that there isn't a certain amount of risk taken with each breeding, but who is responsible when known risks are taken. It just seems unfair to the dogs.
    Sherri Young

    "It's the journey that's important, with experience and knowledge to be gained along the way, in the company of our faithful dogs and our good friends."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Senior Member pafromga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breeding the dysplastic high performers

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Halstead
    To continue on the Risky Business Ruby Thread.

    When you look at the basics it becomes clear that breeding is a risk-reward relationshhip. Breeding dogs like Corky (known dysplastic) the reward was a top performing dog while the risk was a dysplastic dog. The number of Corky offspring becoming top performers made the rewards worth the risks.

    As time progressed breeders became aware that OFA and other tests could reduce the risks of producing dysplastic dogs. However, total removal is not the rule but the generally approved practice. Occasionally a top performing individual is identified that carries a genetic defect. Removing these individuals from the breeding population might have an adverse effect of the overall population.

    I advocate testing the breeding population, but not total removal of these animals. Each breeder must measure the risks, but for most there are dogs in the population that don't carry the risks.
    Nicley put Richard.
    Somebody said something like this on a CNM carrier thread last week and was crucified.
    Nathan Arnold

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    a talented dysplastic dog.......

    who really wants to watch such a dog struggle through his/her geriatric years?

    been there;done that; got the tear-stained tee shirt regards......-paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  7. #7
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    Might be interesting to see a list of all the titled dogs(ones that are bred regularly today) that wouldn't be here if those known HD dogs had not been bred back in the day?
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  8. #8
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breeding the dysplastic high performers

    The number of Corky offspring becoming top performers made the rewards worth the risks.
    Define risk. The only risk I see is a money related and not breed integrity.

    Occasionally a top performing individual is identified that carries a genetic defect. Removing these individuals from the breeding population might have an adverse effect of the overall population.
    Adverse? Define adverse. I think there are plenty of other options to carry on desired genetic traits. The "best" dog doesn't mean it went to a working home. Also, it doesn't mean that the "best" dog recieved the best training. So a "high performer" is the one with the best trained performance (yes genetics are invovled)?
    The problems of today cannot be solved the with same of thinking that created them.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Frontier Labs
    But is this practice really good for the overall health of the breed???
    Yes, you will see alot of talented dogs produced, but in return, you will also see large numbers of puppies with whatever ailed the dogs that were bred.
    The majority of labrador owners do not have the funds for hip/elbow/ccl surgeries. So what happens to these dogs???
    Additionally, what if these progeny are bred without regard to their health issues?
    I'm not saying that there isn't a certain amount of risk taken with each breeding, but who is responsible when known risks are taken. It just seems unfair to the dogs.
    These are not the dogs I am talking about, but the owners of females that just want a litter. I am talking about hypothetical unique performer-producers. I am not aware of any now that are genetically callenged. Besure if an animal of the quality previously mentioned there will be a large demand to breed.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

  10. #10
    Senior Member Last Frontier Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Halstead
    These are not the dogs I am talking about, but the owners of females that just want a litter.
    Do you really believe that? Suppose a very talented stud with some genetic deficiency lived today... Do you really think the owner would be selective in the bitches he chose to breed to???

    In 2 generations, those genes could be in the "pet lab" population. It happens all the time.
    Sherri Young

    "It's the journey that's important, with experience and knowledge to be gained along the way, in the company of our faithful dogs and our good friends."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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