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Thread: Rationing Education

  1. #11
    Senior Member jgsanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    I'd rather see motivated foreign students paying full ticket taking seats in our universities than all the dumb asses on athletic scholarships on a free ride to no where.
    A "free ride" huh? Apparently some do not understand the demands of a college student athlete. I can get the statistics if I must, but about 95% of NCAA student athletes do not turn professional in their sport. There are 1 and done NCAA basketball players yes, but they are the minority. There was video everyone can youtube of the NC tarheel basketball player who made a game winning shot in the NCAA tournament recently (I believe to get them into the final 4, which they eventually won) showing up for an 8:00 class the next morning after a late night ball game and a red eye back to Chapel Hill.

    No doubt some stereotype footballs players as dumb. Two of the top rated QB's coming out in this years NFL draft are Clemson's Deshawn Watson and UT's Joshua Dobbs. Both minorities and Watson is the first college graduate in his family. He grew up in Section 8 housing and eventually his single parent Mom qualified for a habitat for humanity home that I believe was paid for by FSU's Warrick Dunn who gave his Mom the keys to their first home. Deshawn graduated Clemson in 3 years (summer classes and 18 hour per semester workloads). Joshua Dobbs is literally a rocket scientist having majored in aerospace engineering at UT. Get your facts straight please. They made the most of their opportunity and God given talents. Good on both young Men!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Dobbs
    Last edited by jgsanders; 04-20-2017 at 10:07 PM.
    Clemson Tigers 2016 Football National Champions

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  3. #12
    Senior Member jgsanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swliszka View Post
    The real issue Marvin is tuition MONEY! Schools public and private often get more money from out-of-state or foreign students by law or residence. No magic- money!
    x3 Swiz!

    I have a personal story along these lines, and out of state money greed by public universities (probably private too).

    My alma mater Clemson is no exception to the hunger for out of state tuition money, despite their in-state tax dollars. My mom attended Clemson and I was at Clemson when my younger sister applied. She was a top 10%er coming out of HS and well qualified for admission. Upon application, she was sent a letter inviting her to reapply in the next December enrollment and not the incoming Freshman August class. Well, this didn't sit well with my Father.

    Remember Strom Thurmond, the 48 year tenured Senator from SC? Well, my father called his office asking for help. Got a real person on the phone, not Strom but a staff member (in 1995ish). My Father described his concern to this senior staff member. Keep in mind my Father was not political person, just a Vietnam Vet who wanted the best for his family. Well, Strom's staffer advised my Father to call the admission's Dean and ask for a meeting to discuss his concern for why so many lesser qualified out of State applications were being accepted at a State supported school in SC. He promised to also work things from his end. My Father followed through and a meeting time was set a few weeks out.

    Well, low and behold, my sister received a 2nd letter in the mail from Clemson before that meeting ever took place inviting her to join the upcoming August Freshman class. To this day, we don't know if it was my Father's meeting request or the Thurmond office influence that got my sister into Clemson. She finished in 3.5 years with an education degree and has been teaching public school in SC ever since. Took me 5 years to graduate. True story.
    Clemson Tigers 2016 Football National Champions

  4. #13
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    The local university (TAMUK) is loaded with foreign students, esp in the engineering department. I think mod to of the students are from India and some areas of Africa. It concerns me a bit that we have students from (currently) friendly nations in the engineering majors. Back in the late 70's we had a bunch of Iranians here, then the fall of the Shah and they were mostly sent home, but one has to wonder how many completed their studies and learned things that were then used against us. Teach them economics, business, history, (conservative) political science, fine, but I'm not so sure about engineering, chemistry, etc.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  6. #14
    Senior Member swliszka's Avatar
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    1. There are at least two viewpoints regarding the admission of foreign higher education students.
    2.Positive that they become proficient in a given field and due to their training are allowed to stay/work in the USA. Benefits cordial/bilateral national relations. Schools even give them money?
    3. Negative, taking a spot from a US student ,state or national , and gaining technological/competitive proficiency which will be brought back to their homeland.
    4. Since ping-pong Nixon, the doors were opened to Asian students. China and India, if paying the freight REQUIRED their nationals to take selected degrees-STEM !
    5. How do you think China moved so fast in technology? When their economy and Communist Party elites offspring could NOT cut it at their own elite/highly competitive schools they sent them to the USA--paying the tuition. Thus the anti-Trump squeal that he would reduce this higher-ed income source.
    6. There is great diversity in how American higher education handles student acceptance-foreign and American.Some fair-some not. Leading to what is "fair?" Another thread required. What is smart? Diversity blend including geography counts.
    7. One of the best examples of state cooperation is the MN/WI/IA/SD/ND state University systems which take in each other's residents at resident cost. This prevents the border wars prevalent all other the US. I was fortunate at the grad student level (Ph.D.) to be @ BU and have total access to Harvard and MIT. Only needed my major professor's signature and had the finest teachers in the world in high level course/tutorials.
    8. POLITICS enters all entry decisions. Out here in SNOWFLAKE country it extends to pushing for Obama's "Dreamers" , NOT legal US/state residents in as "state resident tuition students" at state schools. I have argued very heatedly BEFORE we do that why not allow bordering state US residents (NY, VT, NH, RI, CT) in on a reciprocal basis? Currently not allowed if a state has a similar program of study. Soooo, there have been enough taxpayers who have rejected this "Dreamer" sweet-deal. Snowflakes will not give up due to La Raza and other ethnic lobbyists. Next comes the attempts to label nay-sayers as being educational "racists."
    9. Many corporations learn of potentially "bright students" from their ethnic mentors who alert companies to potential hires and are groomed for "green cards" with the promise of money, permanent residence and family . Sometimes our intelligence agencies/State Department assist in these arrangements for strategic reasons.

    Education becomes the tool for personal/family success.
    Last edited by swliszka; 04-21-2017 at 06:40 AM.

  7. #15
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    It's amazing what universities pay and do to attract upper level degree students. They recruit masters and doctoral program students just like athletes but unlike athletes they are free to pay the brightest students to attend. My nephew for example was recruited by ivy league schools etc and chose UCSB. I was amazed to find out they paid him around $125K/yr plus set him up in a nice house, not cheap in Santa Barbara. I don't know but maybe only the geniuses get those kind of deals.
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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgsanders View Post
    A "free ride" huh? Apparently some do not understand the demands of a college student athlete. I can get the statistics if I must, but about 95% of NCAA student athletes do not turn professional in their sport. There are 1 and done NCAA basketball players yes, but they are the minority. There was video everyone can youtube of the NC tarheel basketball player who made a game winning shot in the NCAA tournament recently (I believe to get them into the final 4, which they eventually won) showing up for an 8:00 class the next morning after a late night ball game and a red eye back to Chapel Hill.

    No doubt some stereotype footballs players as dumb. Two of the top rated QB's coming out in this years NFL draft are Clemson's Deshawn Watson and UT's Joshua Dobbs. Both minorities and Watson is the first college graduate in his family. He grew up in Section 8 housing and eventually his single parent Mom qualified for a habitat for humanity home that I believe was paid for by FSU's Warrick Dunn who gave his Mom the keys to their first home. Deshawn graduated Clemson in 3 years (summer classes and 18 hour per semester workloads). Joshua Dobbs is literally a rocket scientist having majored in aerospace engineering at UT. Get your facts straight please. They made the most of their opportunity and God given talents. Good on both young Men!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Dobbs
    Terry Baker - ORSU (I believe 1964)

    Heisman trophy winner
    QB on Rose Bowl winner
    Point guard on NCAA tourney team
    Shortstop on OSU's Baseball team
    12 letters in college as freshman were eligible
    3.2 in Mechanical Engineering - graduated with his class
    Now Portland Patent Attorney - My go to example of a student athlete getting it right

    Vic Janowicz
    - OHSU (never graduated)

    Heisman trophy winner
    RB
    Managed to stay eligible to compete for 4 years while still barely above a Sophomore in status
    Always has job as foreman on a construction project around Columbus - My go to example of a supposed student athlete getting used
    __________________________

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    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  9. #17
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    Marvin, I thought I would give you another perspective of Vic. Not sure that I am objective, as I live in Elyria (his hometown) and was the principal of Elyria High School (where he graduated), although many years after his graduation.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/29/sp...n-in-1950.html

    http://heisman.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=16
    " Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, (red) wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!" Unknown

  10. #18
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post

    Vic Janowicz
    - OHSU (never graduated)

    Heisman trophy winner
    RB
    Managed to stay eligible to compete for 4 years while still barely above a Sophomore in status
    Always has job as foreman on a construction project around Columbus - My go to example of a supposed student athlete getting used
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikegillam View Post
    Marvin, I thought I would give you another perspective of Vic. Not sure that I am objective, as I live in Elyria (his hometown) and was the principal of Elyria High School (where he graduated), although many years after his graduation.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/29/sp...n-in-1950.html

    http://heisman.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=16

    Are ya'll talking about the same fellow. Sounds to me like Janowicz did pretty well in the face of some pretty severe trials.

    HPL
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikegillam View Post
    Marvin, I thought I would give you another perspective of Vic. Not sure that I am objective, as I live in Elyria (his hometown) and was the principal of Elyria High School (where he graduated), although many years after his graduation.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/29/sp...n-in-1950.html

    http://heisman.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=16
    I would have to say I stand corrected, my source was a guy from Columbus OH who worked for me
    as an engineer. Hopefully the articles you present were true!
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

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