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Thread: Repeat Blinds?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Default Repeat Blinds?

    I know the philosophy on marks is to repeat the concept, but not the actual mark and I do understand it, but...

    ...when running blinds do you train the same way? I usually put out 3 or so bumpers & re-run if it seems I had to work hard against a certain factor. The result on the repeats is much like a cheating single-"Oh ok! I get it now" & the line is good. But does the dog really learn anything from that?? i.e.-is he remembering the casts that kept him on line (not in a literal sense, but I think you know what I mean) or is he just going straight (& fighting factors) because that's what he's been taught & frankly-he knows where the bumper is?

    If anyone understands my question I'd appreciate feedback!

    Thanks-

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you canít take it backÖ"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

  2. #2
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    Repeat the concept but not the blind. If it's a crosswind blind do 3 and give them 3 shots at being successful.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  3. #3
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
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    Miriam,

    I repeat blinds very early in the dog's work on blind retrieves. I do a lot less drill work than most people talk about--just enough to introduce dogs to stopping and casting and being sent on different lines, and some forcing on back. I want them to know early that when I set them up and send, "there's something out there," and I know where it is. (John starts blinds in the field even earlier than I, sometimes skipping the drills altogether.)

    This means I am trying to do blinds with a dog who has a fairly vague idea about casting. If necessary I follow him out, so I can give casts up close. Sometimes he clearly doesn't get the picture, and I call him to my side and try another send (this is when I'm partway out to the blind). I may apply some pressure to go. If there is enough of this that I think the "overall picture" has completely escaped the dog, I'll repeat. If he looks like lining it, I may stop him deliberately and give a back cast, just to practice the cast in a field situation.

    I wean them off of this pretty quickly, probably by the time they've run ten or so blinds. Usually by setting up blinds in places dogs naturally tend to go, I can get them in the groove of taking a line and running a long way, so I don't need to rely on known destinations.

    Another time I might repeat is if a dog surprises me by taking a cheat I didn't anticipate, at high speed, and getting his line screwed up as a consequence. Then he has in effect learned the wrong way to deal with that particular obstacle, and I want to correct it. I will repeat and insist on an honest line.

    I guess the overall principle is that if I feel the dog has learned the wrong thing, or failed to learn the right thing, I may repeat. Otherwise I don't. But I have repeated more in the past, and can see how repeating could have a place in a particular scheme of training. A repeated blind is like a taught or school blind, something like a drill.

    Hope that helps,

    Amy Dahl

  4. #4
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    I do not think that I have ever repeated a blind (not to say that is not a correct thing to do) ....

    I have come back another day....perhaps a week later...and run the same blind(s)...establishing "school" blinds.

    Cross wind....(I do) set blinds out and run them...just once each. I started with the school blinds..then cold blinds. Can see the dog really work to hold line to blind as they "get it"

    Also...I set "T" or a drill out in wind to practice my casting (in wind) with my dogs...and teach them to cast into or against it.

    They love training in wind so lots of good attitude to carry us through

    Judy

  5. #5
    Senior Member lablover's Avatar
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    If I'm doing a new concept I will repeat a blind. Maybe even run it again in a day or two.

    ALWAYS run multiple blinds though. I do blinds in groups of 3.
    <--- Dooey, MH
    MHR Duckmates Fly Guy MH 05/17/94 - 07/17/08 "Flyboy"
    Candlewood Court Magician JH 1/31/02 - 8/2/12 "Magic Man"

    Richard

  6. #6
    Senior Member camhuff's Avatar
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    I've found running the same blind over when training with a young dog starts to build confidence. As their confidence grows I will run the same blind but I will change the angle or line to the blind I may walk the dog over say 100yds and run the blind from a different line. One thing I do as far as pushing a dog out on blinds is to setup a blind in a large field. Once they run this blind really good, lining it or maybe one whistle, then I will backup about fifty yards and run it again on the same line. I will do this until they can run this blind out to 500yds. Now this is not going to happen over a week to a month's time frame. This will take months to accomplish and its a fun thing not a pressure thing. It has made blind running fun for Tucker. Hope this info may help you. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!
    HRCH Buster Browns Tucker JH
    HR Maxamillion Bucks II JH

  7. #7
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    ...isn't running a blind from different locations...a "Chinese Drill"..which is a very good drill..? ...or am I thinking of the wrong term... Will have to double check. Great on water, too.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Terry Thomas's Avatar
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    I setup multiple blinds in a Chiness drill or a tune-up drill and repeat the whole drill each day for about 5 days.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    THANKS! This is really helpful to me. Because I've just fairly recently left the comfort zone of pattern blinds for cold blinds I just want to make sure I'm giving him every opportunity to succeed & keep his great attitude & still challenge him. Key relationship drills have been great because of both the suction from the mark & the push/pull aspect of running the mark & 3 different blinds, so we will do those too, but I think my question related almost more to repeating a very challenging blind.

    I started to type what we ran yesterday (I trained alone) because I really felt it went well (& it didn't seem "over his head"), but suffice it to say it's encouraging that (& especially dependent upon where the dog is in terms of his blind running experience) some of you would repeat. Given the challenges to this blind-distance, strong cross wind, a just run mark in the picture, angle entry & exit -I did think it would be beneficial to repeat. I thought effort was very good on the first run & I did back up & increase the severity of the angle entry.

    I guess what I like about repeating is that -& I should say that I don't let him run the repeat as a just go out & go where you want & stumble on the bird. Squaring entries or exits he's cast on, etc. BUT-you can see him run the repeat with a REAL purpose & joie de vivre & it seems to allow me to increase the distance & angles with him having the same desire to run it as a mark. I don't want to get a false sense of confidence about that if it's not beneficial, but it SEEMS to be a good thing, so I appreciate the feedback that supports it & will definitely try all the suggetsions given.

    THANK YOU AGAIN!!

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you canít take it backÖ"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

  10. #10
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Miriam

    You ask such good questions!

    I learn a lot from your posts!

    But,

    HUH???------
    joie de vivre

    Wasnt he a baseball player at one time??


    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

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