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Advice on training issue?

1K views 10 replies 4 participants last post by  camhuff 
#1 · (Edited)
I have had an issue come up in training that is new to me, and I am not sure how to deal with it. My 2 year old BLF has her HR (seasoned) title, and we have been training hard for Finished in the Spring and running Senior this fall. We have been running triples for about 4 weeks. We have been working hard on in-line doubles as a concept for the last several days. She has been running ILD’s great with BB’s tossing ducks at the same distances that have caused my “issue.”

Two days ago, I started running triples off wingers in my fields with an in-line double combined with a third “go” bird. Basically, this is the set-up that has caused the problem. Memory bird directly in front of the line at 120 yards off winger 1, short in-line bird off winger 2 at 50-60 yards (dead in line with Winger 1) and go bird at 80 yards at 45 degrees from the line to the right across a little pond.

My dog will nail the go bird, and then smack the short bird. She will then run past the AOF for the short bird of the in-line, and proceed to the AOF for the memory bird. But then she will veer off (to the left) to the #1 winger blind, circle the #1 Winger blind once, and then go to the memory bird area, tight little hunt and bring it back. She has done this in 2 fields now.

She has never shown the least interest in a Winger blind before. The distance of the mark has not been an issue in the past. She handled ILD’s off the Wingers with no issues last week. I DO NOT want my dog to start “running to the winger blind” and then putting on a hunt. I ran the long bird as a single last night, after she had previously "circled" and she smacked it without going to the winger. What gives?

Any thoughts on how to deal with this?

Let her figure out on her own that running to the Winger is of no help?

Handle her off the Winger blind?

Put a BB with a heeling stick at the Winger?

Go on to a different concept?

Thanks for any help.

WME
 
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#2 ·
Have you run this set up as singles to help her get the idea or did you go to cold in-lines?

Also how are you setting them up? Some folks define an inline set up as one where home plate is the line, a short bird is thrown at the pitchers mound and the long bird at second base, which is actually an over-under.
 
#3 ·
We have not run the 3 "legs" as individual singles and then run it as a combined triple as the fourth sequential set of marks, if that is the question. So, I guess it is set up cold. We have had no issues with running to the winger on the memory bird with similar "cold" triples w/o the inline.

In this scenario, if the dog is at home plate, the memory (issue) bird is in the outfield behind second base, the short in line bird is at about second base, and the go bird is on a line past first base in the outfield. Does that make sense?
 
#4 ·
The set up you describe is an over under. For a true inline, you can draw a straight line that all 3 falls will lie on at an acute angle to the casting line. In any event, when introducing a new concept whether it is a tight set of marks, which over/unders and in-lines are by definition, falling back to singles is much easier mentally on the dog. We are asking the dog to go close to where it just picked up a bird in order to get to another fall. Unless the dog is throughly schooled not to return to an old fall( a quick way to fail an AKC test) the problem you describe is a cinch to happen. Singles not only simplify things for the dog( a necessity when teaching something new) but they make correction easier.
I have never run HRC, there are no clubs close, but I have never seen an over under in AKC Senior. The only in line I have ever seen was in a Master that I judged.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Bob: Thanks for the thoughts, but I must be being dense in my comprehension. (nothing new for me :)). The Winger blind she is checking out is not from the short bird (old fall she has to run through to get to the memory bird), but for the longest bird, first thrown, last picked up. Running as singles first will help with not checking out the far winger blind for the first bird down? Seems like she would just be learning to run back to an old fall for that particular winger when tossed as part of a triple. Am I thinking about this wrong?

I saw an over/under (Judges called it an in-line double) at a finished test a couple weeks ago, which is why we have been working on it.
 
#6 ·
I have only seen in-line marks in HRC when running Finished!

I believe in Seasoned, by rule, the marks have to be at least 90 degrees apart!

I agree with Bob!

Run the marks a singles first, then repeat a mutiples. do this for a few days, then proof by running the in-line cold!

Gooser
 
#7 ·
I would make sure also that I had "HELP" for the dog ready at that long bird station!

Maybe as a teaching tool have someone throw another bumper as the dog is going for that mark!

Gooser
 
#8 ·
OK, it sounds as if you have a couple of things going here. 1 she is avoiding the AOF of the short bird, likely by pushing to the right which is putting her behind the gun for the long bird(nothing good happens to a dog that backsides a gun). Singles will make her more confortable with pushing right thru or very close to the AOF of the short fall without checking down. 2 she has not yet learned to mark the spot of the fall but is instead hunting off the gun. Use big fat white bumpers thrown in low cover for this long bird. You can also try running this bird as a single AFTER she runs the other two.

I realize that many hard core HRC folks would vapor lock at seeing this, but I teach ALL my dogs early what white shirts in the field mean. Even dogs that only run hunt tests get this education, that way when a difficult concept comes up, I can put white on my stick men and help the dog find the guns. I am convinced that a dog learns to mark better when it has a real good idea where to look, the white along with a duck call and shot from the gun helps. Later I will go to hidden guns and such. I don't however teach mine to mark off my gun.
 
#9 ·
I just checked my HRC rule book for seperation of marks in SEASONED!

I dont see it WRITTEN anywhere, that they should be 90 degrees apart!

I have never run a Seasoned test though where the double mark wasnt at LEAST 90 degrees apart!

Gooser
 
#10 ·
Thanks Bob.

Gooser: We already have our Seasoned title on this dog. Training for finished. The O/U-ILD I mentioned at a test was in a Finished test.

I will train with white coats, stickmen, plastic guns, whatever I have to do for a solid, well rounded dog! :D
 
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