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Thread: On the Line

  1. #1
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    Default On the Line

    I've read here and heard people infer that bringing dogs to the line in a HT can be difficult for the younger dogs. What is it that is difficult? Are they just wound so tight that they will not sit still?

    Remember, I'm coming from the versatile dog background. We do have tightly wound dogs but I don't see a whole lot of problems at the beginning of steadiness sequences where a retrieve is required. I can easily heal my dogs up to the sequence, have them sit and wait out the gunfire and distractions before making retrieves.

    What am I missing? Are we talking about two different things?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Stephen Whitley's Avatar
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    I am qualified to answer that question since my 10 month old male ran his first two jr hunt tests last weekend. He was a borderline nutcase in the holding blinds and going to the line. I had to stop several times going to the line and get him to sit down so he wouldn't look completely out of control. The duck calls and other dogs and gunshots and dead ducks flying everywhere were almost too much for him to handle. Can't quite similate all that with a one to two man training group...but we're working on it. Thank goodness you are allowed to use a leash in jr. He was walking on two feet part of the way to the line for the last water test.

    He went 2 for 2 by the way...

  3. #3
    Senior Member caglatz's Avatar
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    I can second Stephen's remarks only in a different venue .... me and my lab ran our first NAHRA STARTED tests a couple of weeks ago. Thank God we passed both 2/2, but I struggled the whole time with him walking at heal. He was just so fired up and excited like nothing I've seen before. I was actually going to scrap him from the test until another handler (who used to train German Shepards in the ARMY) said to use the slip lead up high and tight on his neck. We got through, but we will be working on obedience and walking at heal throughout the winter and through hunting season, before I attempt to run another test with him.

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    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Oh-I soooo need to post to this! I have a dog that around the house is as mellow & loving as can be. Quiet, laid back, etc. Do obedience routines (I'd like to get his CD & CDX before too long) & his heeling is flawless-great eye contact-fun dog! When training alone or in the group he knows well is very, very good on line. But... ...he goes up quite a few notches at a test or trial! We ran a WCX yesterday & he was ummm... ..animated! He's not vocal & doesn't creep, but he broke (controlled-thank goodness!) for the 1st time in a very long time. Thankfully-it didn't effect his marks, but he was wired for sound! He does work with me on line though, but was a little more "itchin' to go!".In his defense (O'm making excuses!) we normally motel it & have a morning routine. This time I started driving at 4:30 to get there in time to air & not much else.

    However-rather than this being a true Jekyll & Hyde -it's a matter of a lot of exposure to group training & lots of birds & flyers. One of my judges (GREAT judges BTW) after the test was done made that suggestion.

    One of the biggest advantages the pro dogs (& serious amateurs w/ a solid training group) have is a steady diet of training that simulates a trial-right down to flyers & a lot of help in the field. It takes the wide as saucer eyes reaction out of the picture & the dog is more focused because it's become somewhat routine. NOT that they still don't know the difference & step things up a notch, but it helps.

    You want (duh!) that desire or it's no fun watching 'em run once the judge calls your #, but you do need the obedience to assure he's going to be a team player.

    Ribbon for Phil Regards

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    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parshal View Post
    I've read here and heard people infer that bringing dogs to the line in a HT can be difficult for the younger dogs. What is it that is difficult? Are they just wound so tight that they will not sit still?

    Remember, I'm coming from the versatile dog background. We do have tightly wound dogs but I don't see a whole lot of problems at the beginning of steadiness sequences where a retrieve is required. I can easily heal my dogs up to the sequence, have them sit and wait out the gunfire and distractions before making retrieves.

    What am I missing? Are we talking about two different things?
    Last famous words, "he didn't do that in training." Most people find out how quickly their dogs know a test is different than training. With the junior and started tests they can be run young and many times too often as with a double junior, before obedience is reliable, and they quickly become unmanageable for the novice. I don't run my dogs until they are older to avoid having to correct the damage by running them too young and too much.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote!

    I don't see a whole lot of problems at the beginning of steadiness sequences where a retrieve is required.

    In my opinion,, your seeing the difference in the breeds. Your working a Pointer, that will retrieve.

    Big difference in that a retriever is bred to retrieve. The only problem He's got, is that he has to wait till he's told to do it by command. And they just cant WAIT to get that command!

    It would be like askin the pointer to only point(lift that tail, and become staunch) the bird it has found when YOU Commanded him to!! He too would be excited, and I'm sure you would experiance the controll issues!

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 09-30-2007 at 09:24 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    I have an 8 month old that in training can be counted on to walk at heel to the line off leash, honor other dogs off lead, and sit quietly until sent without being held. Once released, she is a bolt of lightning nailing the bird in stride and returning promptly. Sometimes she even gives me the bird gently to hand.

    When I entered her in JH tests, she was virtually impossible to control in the blinds and walked to the line on two legs. The combination of shotguns instead of .22 blanks, flyers that she could smell, see and hear but that other dogs were bringing back, the leash itself, and the interminable wait for her turn undermined all training. Fortunately, at the line she remained steady since she knew it was her turn. She completely nailed the birds. Unfortunately she was even less happy about giving up the bird than usual. She passed her first two tests on the strength of her retrieving. On her next two, I picked her up immediately when she didn't give me the bird instantly. I'll wait a while before trying her again.

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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    If your pointer is steady to shot,, and you have good controll over him, I dont see you will have much of a problem at the line with CONTROL issues.

    I would be working on gettin him used to using his eyes, and not relying on that supurb nose of his!

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Illinois Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parshal View Post
    I've read here and heard people infer that bringing dogs to the line in a HT can be difficult for the younger dogs. What is it that is difficult? Are they just wound so tight that they will not sit still?

    Remember, I'm coming from the versatile dog background. We do have tightly wound dogs but I don't see a whole lot of problems at the beginning of steadiness sequences where a retrieve is required. I can easily heal my dogs up to the sequence, have them sit and wait out the gunfire and distractions before making retrieves.

    What am I missing? Are we talking about two different things?
    Borrow Otter for a weekend and your question will be answered.When you run him at home you'll be thinking "piece of cake",he's ready.Calm as can be.Get him to the test and he's a different animal.I never really understood "jacked up" before I got this dog.I thought it meant "excited".It really means "Eyes glazed over,training out the window,vocal,handler dragging nutcase".Or in his words "I want that bird NOW!!!!".

  10. #10
    Senior Member Georgia.Belle's Avatar
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    Left hand quarter turns in the holding blind. Make the dog yield to you at heel. Run the heck out of them when you air before it is you turn. It gets better but sometimes they still want to forge ahead.

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