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Thread: How big of a problem is this?

  1. #1

    Default How big of a problem is this?

    When my dog exits the water he drops the bird or bumper, shakes and then waits till I command him to fetch before he heels and delivers. He only does this on the last bird of multiple marks but it still aggravates the **** out of me. Occasionally he doesnt pick it up on the first command and I am quick to ear pinch or apply stimulation. How do I stop him from dropping it all together. I have tried nick and constant stimulation but he always makes sure he takes it long enough to shake then picks it up and delivers like I never corrected. I also tried going back to force fetch but he quickly shows me, dont worry I know this drill. BTW he is an extreme of a Type A dog. Is this really a big problem or am I overreacting?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dale's Avatar
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    If you running test or trials it's a big problem. Hunting it could cost you a bird. Sounds like he is FF and CC. It also sounds like it is more an issue of "here" more than "fetch". If he is cc to here go back to that drill and reinforce it. He needs come to heel and deliver and then shack on command.

  3. #3

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    Do a short mark in the water on his return meet him at the waters edge commanding "hold" when he gets close. As soon as he reaches the edge of land give him a stern "hold" and walk backwards about 15 feet. If he drops it, you've gone through FF, revisit and correct "hold" how you normally would. Do it again and keep backing up. He'll get the picture.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Sounds like prizing and the dog is stalling because the dog knows it is over.

    I would guess the problem is more of a Here than a Fetch just as Dale said.

    I'd turn that collar way up to smolder or crispy critter and when the dog exits the water if he drops the bird (and you have done a good job of force fetch) give the dog a Strong HERE!!! the kind that shakes the foundations of buildings several miles away and registers really high on the richter scale and at the same time hit the ecollar on continuous. I'll bet the dog picks the bird back up (since force fetch should be well ingrained and be instinctual before attempting this)and hustles back to your side.

    The dog will get the message that it needs to hustle as much in as it does out. It will be a message of no stalling is allowed.

    Reward the dog when it does get in and gets done with the last bird.

    I had a problem with mine when he was 6 mos or so where he wanted to stop and pee then it got to he would'nt come in on a straight line and so forth. All symptoms of prizing and he was simply stalling. The ecollar method I just described to you put an end to that for a while and it shows up now and again and we address it thusly.

    If someone has another suggestion I'm open to it, but what I described to you works.

    My 2 cents worth anyway.
    The More I Learn About People ,The More I Love My Dog!

    A good friend will bail you out of jail. A really good friend will be sitting in jail beside you saying "DAMN that was fun!!!"

  5. #5
    Member Clark Mason's Avatar
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    take this for what it's worth since I'm a rank noobie at this but...
    I am having this same type of problem with birds only - bumpers and dokkens, he'll deliver fine.

    One thing that I tried that seemed to work a little was as soon as he dropped it, I didn't say a word, I just jumped right in the water, took the bird, applied force (ear pinch) and shoved the bird in his mouth, made him stand still until I got back on dry land and called him in. It doesn't seem to have totally solved the problem but it seemed to at least help convey the message that he isn't supposed to drop it AT ALL til I say.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Terry Thomas's Avatar
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    What Dale and Buster Brown said is right on target. I would watch for the slightest hesitation on all retrieves and for a while even those retrieves that don't have any hesitation when the dog gets close command "HERE" and constant stimulation until he comes to heel with or without if he comes without the bird now correct for fetch.

  7. #7
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    I had this issue with Ginger before we passed our first hunt test. We CC'd the Force Fetch. I also CC'd "here" per Smartworks. She would be dropsy with ducks or bumpers, so anytime she dropped on shore, I would give a fetch plus a low continuous until she had the retrieve object picked back up. Eventually, I wouldn't give the command but did give the burn when she dropped. I stayed quiet and kept emotions down, and she got very reliable very quick since she understood what her actions meant.

    I would also bump the bumper with my hand before releasing her to drop it just to test her after the retrieve. Part of it I believe, if they worked hard for the retrieve, it is easier to drop it for them to catch their breath. It is like school though, a 99% effort and then giving up at the end can still be a failing grade while a 100% will result in an "A".

    Also with the force to "here", the dog won't shake until after you relase it.
    Terry Britton, P.E.

    Engineers believe that if it isn't broken, it doesn't have enough features yet.

  8. #8

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    Thanks for all the input. I guess I need to set the collar a little higher. What still puzzles me is that if i accidently drop the bumper or bird when I command to give he immediately picks it up and holds. Also when we just work singles he doesnt have that problem or if a bird is crippled he definitely makes sure I have it before he releases. I think the best description was prizing, since it is only the last bird/bumper of multiple marks. I would like to thank everyone again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anassar11 View Post
    Thanks for all the input. I guess I need to set the collar a little higher. What still puzzles me is that if i accidently drop the bumper or bird when I command to give he immediately picks it up and holds. Also when we just work singles he doesnt have that problem or if a bird is crippled he definitely makes sure I have it before he releases. I think the best description was prizing, since it is only the last bird/bumper of multiple marks. I would like to thank everyone again.
    Working water is a whole nother story. A wet dog wants to shake when they exit or re-adjust their hold.

    Angie

  10. #10
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    I'm working with a data set of 1. So, keep that in mind. I have a Chessie that had the same problem, but it occured every exit from the water. No other problems anywhere with 'hold'.

    I met the dog down in the water and called for the drop before he could shake. Then I worked my way back to the water edge, up the bank. In one session I went from in the water to 30 yds up the bank. I used very short throws to shorten the cycle time between reps.

    I got good results, not perfect, on the first ten. Then it got better. Within 3 brief sessions the problem was resolved. I broke up the 'drop' sessions with brief exercises in things the dog is very familiar with.

    I also told the dog to shake when I knew he was going to anyway (after the drop). Now, he waits and shakes on command.

    It may not work for you. But, it does offer another choice of methods to choose from.

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