Force/Walking Fetch

[Zman1001]

Hello all.

I am having an issue with my 8 month old yellow male that I would like your assistance with.

I am currently going through the force fetch process. Using force, I was able to get him to pick up off of the ground fairly quickly, with gusto. I then moved to walking fetch. At first, he would go with some gusto for the bumper on the ground while walking, when force used (I am using ear pinch). I then moved to the walking without ear pinch. For the most part, he would go at the bumper with good force about 85% of the time. He always picked the bumper up and never walked over it, or did not pick it up. I thought he was doing pretty good at it and was going good.......UNTIL.....I met with the local trainer to show progress and get next step directions (stick fetch).

When I took him to the garden area for training, I went to show her and I attempted to show him without force. He walked to bumper, half lunged at it, but did not pick it up. She thought maybe it was due to the training area, so she put a bumper in front of his face, said fetch and he looked and smelled it. I tried it and he looked at it, smelled it, then opened mouth and slowly went to grab it.

SO....we went back to another week of walking fetch with force. Through an entire week of walking fetch with force, he seems to have gotten no better. As soon as I get set up to grab his ear, he is off like a race horse towards the bumper. Most of the time now, he will not even pick it up off the ground. He will just go towards the bumper when pinch is about to be given, but not pick it up. At that point, I grab ear, pinch and redirect him to the bumper until picked up.

If, I use no force, but just do walk, he picks it up, but without a really good amount of enthusiasm. If I put the bumper in front of him, he slowly grabs it. If I go to grab ear, he lunges for it.

Sorry for long question/explanation. Do you have any suggestions on what I can do next to help me out. I am getting frustrated with the process because I clearly see he understands what he needs to do to not get ear pinch(lunge towards bumper), but he will not pick bumper up.

Help.

Thanks
Doug

[JS]

Others may disagree, but I think I would transition to collar fetch now before going to stick fetch. He is responding to your "threat" of ear pinch rather than your "fetch" command.

I would say your timing may not have been good except that you indicate he was "going with gusto" until you started moving fetch and now he appears to be waiting for you to reach for the ear. Just a part of the process.

JS

[Mike Perry]

I have ff'ed a bunch. 11 just this year and have never done stick fetch.
I your dog CC'ed/ If not get a good e collar (Tri Tronics) and cc your dog, then go to collar fetch. He will pick it up every time and the intensity and speed of his fetching will pick up astronomically.
If he is already CC, then teach collar fetch then walking fetch.

[Zman1001]

Thank you both. I am following Lardy program. We have cc'd him for "here" command only at this point because he was ignoring me when called. According to program, cc does not come until after simple casting, but I realize we may now have to move all cc up to move forward with this.

Thank you again. I am really enjoying my first intro to retriever training and look forward to continuing it.

Doug

[Evan]

I have ff'ed a bunch. 11 just this year and have never done stick fetch.
Is your dog CC'ed/ If not get a good e collar (Tri Tronics) and cc your dog, then go to collar fetch. He will pick it up every time and the intensity and speed of his fetching will pick up astronomically.
If he is already CC, then teach collar fetch then walking fetch.

I've done stick fetch many times in years past. I have no objection to the process, except that it isn't an efficient use of time with the technology and tools we have today. Like Mike, I go from ear pinch to CC, and get them moving. Also like Mike, I'm a huge fan of TT collars!

Evan

[Pete]

Others may disagree, but I think I would transition to collar fetch now before going to stick fetch. He is responding to your "threat" of ear pinch rather than your "fetch" command.

I would say your timing may not have been good except that you indicate he was "going with gusto" until you started moving fetch and now he appears to be waiting for you to reach for the ear. Just a part of the process.

I second JS .
I also dont think it matters when you use the stick. After or before the dog is forced by juice. So much of it is deturmined by the trainers ability to recognize and counter the reactions and not a step by step robotic obedience to the program

There is a reason people follow a program and that is because thats how the auther sees the natural progression of steps and tries to put it in an easy follow along plan for its viewers. and dogs usually follow suit.

but,,,when a dog doesnt follow suit then you must change ity up alittle

I always cc before ff ,,and collar force before stick only because I see it better that way and my motor skills work much better with this arrangement,,, a wack and a push of the button are easier for me to do than a wack and try to grab the collar or walk the thing through with my hand on the collar through walking stick fetch.,,,,one could never tell the differennce.

Your dog is normal ,,,many do this,,,, and depending on how confident you are will probably deturmine which rt you take
Good luck

Pete

[Zman1001]

Thank you again to all who answered. Evan, I did pick up a used TriTronics G2 Flyway Special a month or so back and love it (especially for the price I paid).

Before we did our training session last week (when he did not perform), the trainer was saying that the last few students she has worked with, stick fetch did not really work for them, so she was torn a little bit of whether to try it with me because of that. However, after my pup did not perform, we decided to go for 1 more week of walking fetch (with increased force than what I was using) and see how he responds.

The test is today as I go back for my weekly session to show her my progress.

Thank you all again.
Have a great day
Doug

[jtfreeman]

Zman1001,

I have recently been in your shoes. Thought I was doing it all good and right, but then took my pup out to train with a Pro and quickly found out I was not doing it right. I for one was doing "nag" fetch rather than "force" fetch. I was not creating compulsion to pick the bumper up. My pup would perform the command but it was not "snappy" and not consistant. Once I was tought the correct way to train FF there was a world of difference. I too follow Lardy and am on to casting now. Every so often my pup (one year old) needs an "ear pinch" refresher to bring back the "snappy" but other than that all seems well (but then again I have not been back to be evaluated since I finished FF).

I guess what I am trying to say is be very careful of the nag fetch.

[Zman1001]

Thanks. I think I was on the nag pinch as well. Last night in our session, I got a few other tips to help me out (holding bumper out a little bit, pinch pinch, pinch, then rotate a little bit). He was lunging for the bumper at that point.

I also was holding the collar, but letting go when he lunged for bumper. Another suggestion was to hold onto collar the entire time. It is now much easier to get the ear for the next bumper.

I have another week to work on it to move it along. If it does not work, I may have to see how much a pro will charge for a session to get it moving along better.

Thanks
Doug

[jtfreeman]

sounds like you got some of the same advice I got and are on the right track.