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Thread: Push/Pull

  1. #1
    Senior Member Stephen Whitley's Avatar
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    Default Push/Pull

    What is the best drill or what are some good drills for working on Push/Pull? I am having a little trouble lining my dog up. He heels on my left and if I want to push him to the left he goes too far. If I want to pull him to the right a lot of times he ends up facing too far to the right. Sometimes I can move my left leg forward and he will move ahead about a foot. He may be lined up at this point but I have to lean forward a little to extend my hand. More often than not he will scoot forward again when I lean forward. Then we start over etc, etc, etc. Should I be working on this with a lead? Maybe I shouldn't lean so far forward. It's not like I am leaning WAY out there though. What do you suggest? I inserted a picture to help visualize. Looking at this picture, if I were to step forward to extend my hand he would likely scoot forward.
    Last edited by Stephen Whitley; 01-28-2008 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Added picture
    Stephen

  2. #2
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    I would have a short lead on the dog and do 3 bumper pile drill.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Stephen Whitley's Avatar
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    Do you mean 1 pile with 3 bumpers or 3 piles?
    Stephen

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    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    3 piles & he should just pivot slightly on heel/here. Don't let him forge on the drill. If he does-bring him back to heel & don't send if he front seats you. You want his movement to be subtle on the drill, but clearly acknowledging which bumper you want. Someone will elaborate better than me, but ironically-this is what we worked on after work tonight.

    M
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    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Yes, what Miriam said. Also you should use the leg opposite of the dog and start with the dog lined up with the middle pile. A slight move of the off leg forward and back to "push/pull" the dogs head.




    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

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    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  6. #6

    Default

    You may want to begin by just working on "Push" & "Pull" without any bumpers. Some handlers like to use the leg/foot closest to the dog for "push" & "pull", some like to use the leg/knee furthest away for "pull". Use a training collar (choke or prong) with a tag line (light snap) to correct (tell him "NO, Here") each time you give the "pull" command. Use your whip (light tap) to correct (with a verbal "NO, heel") each time you give the "push" command. The idea is to get the dog to move his head/front feet toward you ("Pull"), and his head to the left ("Push"). This exercise takes maybe 5 minutes per day. Spend at least a week on this.

    If you don't understand how to do this part, call a PRO or a experienced amiteur AND find some training books or DVD (SMARTWORKS is a good one).

    After you got that down, do 3 bumper piles outside piles should be 45 degrees from you on either side.

    After that - go to wagon wheels. Start with 4 bumper wagon wheel (1-2 wks) -- than move on to 8 bumper WW.

    For all these drills you'll initially need to use your lead and whip to keep the pup from flairing and moving foward as you pivit.These corrections should be fairly light as they are used to position the dog.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Pheasanttomeetyou; 01-29-2008 at 12:11 AM.
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  7. #7
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    It's called a heeling stick Your dog shouldn't be moving his butt anywhere, and especially not forwards. Put a short tab with either a pinch collar or choke collar to help keep your dog in place. If you move to your left (heel), the dog should be scooting back a little bit and you do that by stepping into the dog and using your heeling stick to guide his butt backwards. Don't let him get up, he can do this without standing all the way up. If you move to the right (here), your dog should not be going forward at all, but adjusting his front end to align himself with your knee. You can use the collar and heeling stick to help the dog line himself up right. If he moves forward, give him a jerk on the collar and tap his chest using the command 'heel'. It's almost impossible to describe. How did he do in obedience on this?

    Keep your standards very high, he's a handsome looking dog, looks like he has some go. Also make your dog move with you, make the dog do the work, that means you have to PLANT your feet and keep them there. The more you move around, the more that encourages the dog to move around. So if your dog comes back with a bumper and sits ahead of you, don't move up to the dog, make him nove back to you using your pinch collar and heeling stick.

    Drills? Start with 3 piles then move up to doing a wagon wheel. there is another drill I really like called the Sugar-Reitz drill that involves 5 piles of 2 bumpers each, but that is after you get your dog doing at least a 12 bumper wagon wheel. I also do push-pull on a W drill.

    Keep your standards high, that means on marks too. If you have to work on just the line manners, then do a bunch of singles and focus on this issue or you'll battle it always.

    Good Luck

    Kris
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Hunt View Post
    It's called a heeling stick Your dog shouldn't be moving his butt anywhere, and especially not forwards. Put a short tab with either a pinch collar or choke collar to help keep your dog in place. If you move to your left (heel), the dog should be scooting back a little bit and you do that by stepping into the dog and using your heeling stick to guide his butt backwards. Don't let him get up, he can do this without standing all the way up. If you move to the right (here), your dog should not be going forward at all, but adjusting his front end to align himself with your knee. You can use the collar and heeling stick to help the dog line himself up right. If he moves forward, give him a jerk on the collar and tap his chest using the command 'heel'. It's almost impossible to describe. How did he do in obedience on this?

    Keep your standards very high, he's a handsome looking dog, looks like he has some go. Also make your dog move with you, make the dog do the work, that means you have to PLANT your feet and keep them there. The more you move around, the more that encourages the dog to move around. So if your dog comes back with a bumper and sits ahead of you, don't move up to the dog, make him nove back to you using your pinch collar and heeling stick.

    Drills? Start with 3 piles then move up to doing a wagon wheel. there is another drill I really like called the Sugar-Reitz drill that involves 5 piles of 2 bumpers each, but that is after you get your dog doing at least a 12 bumper wagon wheel. I also do push-pull on a W drill.

    Keep your standards high, that means on marks too. If you have to work on just the line manners, then do a bunch of singles and focus on this issue or you'll battle it always.

    Good Luck

    Kris
    Nicely stated!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lynn Hanigan's Avatar
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    Stephen
    Kris gave you some good advice but none of the drills are going to do much good with your dog heeling out in from of you. If you try to push or pull by moving, the dog will not be able to see the movement. Also, by heeling way out in front like your picture indicates, he is telling you that he thinks he is leading the dance.
    I suggest you teach him that "heel" means that his ear is no further forward than the seam of your pants. Once you get him there, any movement of either of your legs will be visable to him and consequently have more meaning to him. Pushing and pulling can now be taught in the wagon wheel with good success.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Stephen Whitley's Avatar
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    I just got in from doing the 3 pile drill and he did great! He had to be re-heeled a few times when he would get too far in front. He isn't completely new to this lining type of stuff and since he did so welll I actually placed two piles of orange bumpers between the three white ones. Again, he did it. I can almost see him thinking now. He may look around for a few seconds and then when he is looking straight I cue him with "good" and he stays locked on...that's an improvement for him because that has been another minor issue. So, hopefully, we can continue on and clean up the push/pull thing and start progressing from here. Thank you for the help!!
    Stephen

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