What are your standards

[trog]

I see so many threads that this is a great marker but won't hunt. A great lining dog but won't stop on whistle and cast.
On this thread what do people consider to be a great dog? A "meat dog" a HRC dog, a Hunt test dog a field trial dog Etc.

I am a field trialer, my dogs are in the house, I have owned 2 FC's, I have trained for 38 years. I do use a pro.

Now before you bust my chops. I also hunt my dogs more than most people ever think of. I am a retired school teacher. I now guide at www.milfordhills.com for the last ten years and I am out in the field for 60+ days a year. I also have taken yearly trips with my dogs to ND and SD since 1976.

It seems to me, as I look at many posts, that so many people don't hold their dogs to a high standard. Now I watch the "hunting dogs" come where I work and I also watch the tournament hunting plus I have worked and observed Junior hunter tests. These dogs don't quarter, they chase fly aways, they get on a runner and can't be called back, they don't deliver to hand

What am I missing about this whole thing???? Have at me - I am ready to defend myself
trog

[h2oknine]

I run a lot of hunt tests also AA licensed judge in all fields I see a lot of this as a judge some of the biggest mistakes I see is people want the dog to retrieve they forget about the obedience sit heel stay and so on. My biggest pet peeve is seeing a handler being drug to the line by the dog.


My standards
I teach my dogs to deliver to hand at puppy stage why teach them to drop the bumper or bird its just one habit I will have to break so if I can avoid that I will

On a mark I want my dog to show the desire and willingness to find the bird on his own and I try to stay out of their way.

I believe on a mark most new handlers don't allow their dogs to hunt and they start to handle to the mark which tells the dog they don't have to hunt. I know this can happen because I did this with the first dog I trained. He would stop hunting and look to me for directions. I finally had to turn my back on him and he finally started hunting again.

On a blind they are on my time and they need to trust and follow my directions.

if my dog doesn't stop at a whistle I put my running shoes on go after him drag to the area where I first blew the whistle make sit while I walk back to the line then we started over. after that he learned I wasn't going to let him get away with it.

As for hunting when I hunt I am still so called training making sure he doesn't break if he does they don't get to retrieve we send the other dog. The only thing I want to fix is the blinds. there is a difference between a hunting blind and a hunt test blind

[Dale]

Slow day in WI.? Or just a glut for punishment?
My HR titled dog will stop on the whistle out to 400 yards usually, as will my SHR/JH bitch.The will cast, usually. They will deliver to hand. She isn't much on upland but we're working on it. He can be stopped on a runner and then put back on it or called off of it.

[DRAKEHAVEN]

Terry,

I,ll take a punch or 2 with you.

Most people don't know the diffrence, the vast majority have never been to a trial or hunt test. They have not made the choice or SACRAFICE to donate a day or two of their lives to better their dog education, by volunteering to be a bird boy for a Pro.

I got my 1st retriever in 91 and have sacrificed, family, friendships, and most of all finances in order to gain a better understanding of dog training, not just retrievers.
Most people that own a retriever a quite complacant to be well seated in mediocratiy, wether that be how it's bred, trained, or campaigned.

It's all relative, I HAD high standards for the amat. training group I was in.
Then I became a Rorem client, I soon became educated on how low my standards actually were. So I worked hard, thought I had improved. Then I afforded myself the oppurtunity to train with Charlie Perkins, Norm Elder, & Colin Mcnicol this past summer. They probaly have 50 years of combined time with Dave and Rexx (when Dave wintered in Cali.)
Soon again I realized how my standards were subject to criticizem, not because they were not high enough, but rather because I was not consistent with those standards.

I like to compete, don't have to win, but when you take yourself out, that is the WORST feeling in this game. If it worth doing it is worth doing WELL !!!!

JK

[Lab Head]

In my unprofesional opinion, I think that most handlers/trainers/hunters/hunt testers/etc. do NOT train consistantly. Let Fido pull me to the line in this training session, and in the next, drill him with pressure for not obeying. "Yeah, his sit is lazy today, but I'll work on it later." Or when a handler takes Fido out hunting, all training and consistancy go out the window!!!! What is up with that?

[KwickLabs]

I use to........have dogs like that. Looking back I'd have to say it was a combination of awareness, priorities and acceptance. I had no idea what training and standards were. There were other things that were apparantly more important at the time. Each dog did what it could and that was accepted. This is a blunt statement, but there is some significance to the expression......"Ignorance is bliss."

Eight years ago (as my story goes) my awareness changed. This required a change in priorties because I could no longer accept mediocre standards. I discovered the meaning of high standards and accepted the challenge. I have found out high standards are a brass ring concept.......you are always reaching.

Another thing is "reaching" requires a lot of time, money, energy, mental investment and sacrifice. Every once in awhile I wonder what my life would be like if I had remained ignorant (about dog standards). I really don't think one has enough time in the day to do "everything" at the highest level. There are always tradeoffs.

I have neighbors whose lawns are immaculate and their dog(s) take little walks twice a day (if they are lucky). My landscaping standards are extremely low in their eyes, but I can whip up a "dandy" dandelion crop every spring.

[Kevin WI]

hmmm....well, I have a HRCH dog...just turned two. Stops on a whistle if he can hear it, delivers to hand..has drive & style and is pretty steady until released. He quarters in range and is steady to wing & shot. He is a bit hard mouthed only at tests when he's pumped and he gets a bit ahead of me going to the line. Two subjects we are in constant effort to correct & cannot repeat in training. I have high standards, but that was not always the case. Made many mistakes with my first couple of dogs and let them get away with things I no longer put up with, but I was inexperienced at the time. Still have much to learn, but each dog has taught me a lot, and every once since has a little of the last dog in them because of this.
The more time & effort you give a dog, the better team you both will make. That lesson typically only comes with time & experience.
Junior hunt tests? You are watching a dog and handler at the beginning of their journey. You cannot fairly assume that this is how the team will end up when it's all said and done.

[Angie B]

I agree, and they don't know the difference.... This whole dog training/competing thing is a process.... A process!!! No newbie hits the mat,,, like a seasoned veteran, field trialer. They can't. So lets be fair... A newbie with lots of enthusiasum will have a marginal first dog,,, according to us more experienced folks. But the next dog will be better as the next and then the next...

Cut'em some slack... Our first dogs were pretty sucky but at the time we thought they "hung the moon".

Angie

[J. Torrey]

I see so many threads that this is a great marker but won't hunt. A great lining dog but won't stop on whistle and cast.
On this thread what do people consider to be a great dog? A "meat dog" a HRC dog, a Hunt test dog a field trial dog Etc.

I am a field trailer, my dogs are in the house, I have owned 2 FC's, I have trained for 38 years. I do use a pro.

Now before you bust my chops. I also hunt my dogs more than most people ever think of. I am a retired school teacher. I now guide at www.milfordhills.com for the last ten years and I am out in the field for 60+ days a year. I also have taken yearly trips with my dogs to ND and SD since 1976.

It seems to me, as I look at many posts, that so many people don't hold their dogs to a high standard. Now I watch the "hunting dogs" come where I work and I also watch the tournament hunting plus I have worked and observed Junior hunter tests. These dogs don't quarter, they chase fly aways, they get on a runner and can't be called back, they don't deliver to hand

What am I missing about this whole thing???? Have at me - I am ready to defend myself
trog

Before, I read the rest of the posts, I just want to say you are a good dog owner. As you should be. Most hunters don't even look at there dogs after the duck season. They like to talk a big talk about owning a trained retriever, but they crack the sliding glass door open and shove a bowl of food out. That is there daily contact with there dogs. Sadly this is reality for most hunters. No doubt 10 guys will get on here and tell me how wrong I am, but the fact your here means hunting/competing with dogs is important to you. You are not the people I'm talking about.

Now. Be advised. It's my day off, It's after 5:00 somewhere and I'm bored.

I see so many threads that this is a great marker but won't hunt. A great lining dog but won't stop on whistle and cast.
On this thread what do people consider to be a great dog? A "meat dog" a HRC dog, a Hunt test dog a field trial dog Etc.

If a dog won't hunt he's not a great marker. If a dog won't stop on a whistle and cast he's not a great Lining/ handling dog. They are a side order...Let me explain. In the words of JG. "They are not the whole happy meal". The happy meal is the whole deal or the complete Field trial dog. Sometimes you get some extra meat..Sometimes some extra cheese.., but you are not a happy meal or FC if you are missing any of the staples.

Good luck

[J. Torrey]

I agree, and they don't know the difference.... This whole dog training/competing thing is a process.... A process!!! No newbie hits the mat,,, like a seasoned veteran, field trialer. They can't. So lets be fair... A newbie with lots of enthusiasum will have a marginal first dog,,, according to us more experienced folks. But the next dog will be better as the next and then the next...

Cut'em some slack... Our first dogs were pretty sucky but at the time we thought they "hung the moon".

Angie

Great point. Most everyone started in the same place. Hopefully it was the the love of a retriever.