The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Gun Dog Broker
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: Purina Response- Feeding Large Breed Puppies

  1. #11
    Senior Member windycanyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    3,687

    Default

    I would like to add that the lineage you are dealing with has a lot to do with this. I started out w/ bigger labs-- and when LBP food first came out, I kept those those pups on it longer (~18 mos if I remember right). BUT, I wasn't doing as much w/ my dogs then either (to need more calories).

    Now I've got "little" labs.... famales topping out at 60# and males averaging 75 (assuming the owners don't let them get fat... that's another story). So for my small, slow, even growing labs that are pretty well strung together by 1 yr, that seems to be a fine time to switch. If I had a Dane, Mastiff or St Bernard (or oversized Lab even), 2 yrs may well be the ticket as a large dog isn't well tied together yet until about that age. Interestingly enough there was a question on another lab forum recently polling weights--- I can't believe the number of 100+ lb labs out there.

  2. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    S W Ohio
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Camden,
    I add a 1/2 cup more than they recommend. Depending on how much I work my pups. If its winter I may even make it a extra cup. Especially if they are going on a few waterfowl hunts. The litter I have now I blend up 2 cups, what the pups don't finish Momma does.
    Bluebill

  3. #13
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,314

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LabLady101 View Post
    Having said that, Calcium & Phosporus as well as over all caloric intake needs to be watched carefully in Lab pups. Too much Ca & P can lead to joint malformations (because young pups don't have a mechanism to excrete excess Calcium) and too many calories can lead to the pup being overweight- which leads to joint problems as well.

    Most Adult foods (though not all) these days do have acceptable levels of Ca & P for a "Large" breed pup, but you still need to read the label and be careful. And as long as you watch your pup's weight (keeping your pup on the lean side), you should be ok with the extra calories as well. Also, keep in mind that the amount of Ca & P listed in the Guaranteed Analysis is often a Minimum and not a Maximum, meaning the amount that's actually fed can be slightly higher than listed. This is why I personally won't feed a food that has more than a Min of 1.2% Ca listed in the GA to a growing pup.
    The green Diamond ("Premium Adult") lists maximum as well as minimum percentages for Ca and P in their guaranteed analysis. The range is narrow and just what is specified for growing large breed puppies. It is really hard to evaluate all of the competing claims of the dog food manufacturers, but I like that about the Diamond.

    Amy Dahl

  4. #14
    Senior Member LabLady101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kindred, ND
    Posts
    316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by afdahl View Post
    The green Diamond ("Premium Adult") lists maximum as well as minimum percentages for Ca and P in their guaranteed analysis. The range is narrow and just what is specified for growing large breed puppies. It is really hard to evaluate all of the competing claims of the dog food manufacturers, but I like that about the Diamond.

    Amy Dahl
    That's good to know, Amy. Thanks! I know Purina and Iams/Eukanuba only list Mins, and I think there's a host of others that only list Mins as well. It's good to know at least one company (I think Nutro might as well?) states the Max too. Good on Diamond for doing that!
    ~Darcy Litzinger~
    Kinderwood Labradors
    BOB AKC CH ptd/BOB UKC CH/RBISP Intl/Nat Jugend CH Hayshaker's Kinderwood Charmed One CGC "Piper"
    AKC BOBP/UKC CH PTD Hayshaker Kinderwood Where R U Xmas "Faith"

    Gone too soon...
    HIT UCD Intl/Nat CH ptd/UKC CH ptd Bel Air Blue Chip Of Kinderwood CD RE JH CGC "Blue" 06/25/06-04/26/10...love you, "baby girl"!

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Grantville GA
    Posts
    2,199

    Default

    I have found that working Lab pups between 12-24 mos do not get adequate calories from puppy formulas (Purina & others), i.e., I can't keep weight on these young dogs. So I routinely switch to adult performance formula at 10-12 mos based upon the individual dog's response to daily, heavy field work.
    David Didier, GA

  6. #16
    Senior Member Steve Hester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    1,659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    I have found that working Lab pups between 12-24 mos do not get adequate calories from puppy formulas (Purina & others), i.e., I can't keep weight on these young dogs. So I routinely switch to adult performance formula at 10-12 mos based upon the individual dog's response to daily, heavy field work.
    I agree with David. If the young dogs aren't getting much work, then fine, stick with the puppy food. But every dog is different. Their metabolism can vary greatly between any two dogs. The recommended feed amounts listed on the bags are only a guideline. Some dogs will have to have much less than the guidelines, and some will have to have much more than the guidelines, to maintain a healthy weight. I have one young dog now that we switched to adult formula at 12 months. We were having to feed him 6 cups a day of the puppy formula to keep him from looking emaciated. He now gets about 3 cups of the adult Performance Pro Plan. He is still thin, but very healthy.
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Georgia & Michigan
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Just a note, Pro Plan Puppy (NOT the large-breed) has 18% fat which boosts calories...Large Breed Puppy has 12%. Of course, PP Performance is highest with 20%.
    --Vickie Lamb
    "If we cannot subject ourselves to the demands of strict accuracy and precise performance, then we must be content with second-rate rewards." --Rex Carr
    The Ultimate Hunting Dog Reference Book

  8. #18
    Senior Member Bud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northwest, In
    Posts
    1,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LabLady101 View Post
    Here's the thorough explanation (and this is where it can get a bit confusing)...While Labs are most often grouped in with the "Large" Breed dogs because they tend to have the same joint issues, they aren't truly a "Large" breed dog. In fact, the standard actually describes them as a medium sized dog. And you'll find that's true when you compare Labs with other "Large" breed dogs such GSDs, Danes, Newfies, several Hounds, etc. So, their nutritional needs can be slightly different in comparison to other "Large" dogs- hence, why a lot of people do not wait a year or two to switch their Lab pups to Adult food. Having said that, Calcium & Phosporus as well as over all caloric intake needs to be watched carefully in Lab pups. Too much Ca & P can lead to joint malformations (because young pups don't have a mechanism to excrete excess Calcium) and too many calories can lead to the pup being overweight- which leads to joint problems as well.
    Outside of side classification the response from purina does say above 50 lbs at maturity which should cover labs.
    Terry "Bud" Cunningham
    Kankakee River HRC

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Green Mountain, Co
    Posts
    2,300

    Default

    Reading through the posts seems many can't keep weight on their dogs. Which raises a question, is puppy food on the market developed for the common large breed pet AND the active large breed puppy??????
    Below is a comparison of puppy and adult feeds. Definitely they are not the same feed in different bags. Three things jump out at me, which raises more questions.

    First- Though the puppy food is higher in both protein and fat it is lower in kcal/cup. Are there less carbs in puppy food? If so is a high protein and fat/lower carb diet what we should be feeding active puppies?

    Second- There is more than 4X the amount of Vitamin E in the adult feed. Could the amount of Vitamin E in adult food be harmful to puppies?

    Third- Is the amount of Linoleic Acid contained in the adult feed enough for puppies?

    Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy Pro Plan Large Breed Adult
    28/13 26/12
    Digestible Energy 398 kcal/cup Digestible Energy 423 kcal/cup
    Linoleic Acid- 1.6% Linoleic Acid- 1.3%
    Ca- 1.1% Ca- 1.0 %
    P- .8% P- .8%
    Se- .30mg/kg Se- .30mg/kg
    Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg
    Vitamin E- 100 iu/kg Vitamin E- 460 iu/kg
    What its prominence suggest, and what all science confirms is that the dog is a creature of the nose- A. Horowitz.

  10. #20
    Senior Member LabLady101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kindred, ND
    Posts
    316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Losthwy View Post
    Reading through the posts seems many can't keep weight on their dogs. Which raises a question, is puppy food on the market developed for the common large breed pet AND the active large breed puppy??????
    Below is a comparison of puppy and adult feeds. Definitely they are not the same feed in different bags. Three things jump out at me, which raises more questions.

    First- Though the puppy food is higher in both protein and fat it is lower in kcal/cup. Are there less carbs in puppy food? If so is a high protein and fat/lower carb diet what we should be feeding active puppies?

    Second- There is more than 4X the amount of Vitamin E in the adult feed. Could the amount of Vitamin E in adult food be harmful to puppies?

    Third- Is the amount of Linoleic Acid contained in the adult feed enough for puppies?

    Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy Pro Plan Large Breed Adult
    28/13 26/12
    Digestible Energy 398 kcal/cup Digestible Energy 423 kcal/cup
    Linoleic Acid- 1.6% Linoleic Acid- 1.3%
    Ca- 1.1% Ca- 1.0 %
    P- .8% P- .8%
    Se- .30mg/kg Se- .30mg/kg
    Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg
    Vitamin E- 100 iu/kg Vitamin E- 460 iu/kg
    Good post. Here's my take:

    1. Protein & Fat do not matter nearly as much as Calcium & Phosphorus and watching weight overall. In fact, there are studies that actually show higher protein levels (of at least 26%) are better for and not detrimental for growing "Large" breed pups. Having said that, I wouldn't feed a pup a food that has say 42% protein.

    2. Vitamin E (combined with Fish Oil) can actually help prevent and/or reduce joint inflammation. It's also used as an antioxidant as well as helps skin & hair.

    3. Linoleic Acid is an Omega 6 dogs need. As long as the Omega 6s and 3s are properly balanced (should be as close to a 5 to 1 ratio as you can get), you should haven't any problems with either a puppy or a dog. I just wish Purina would specifically list their Omega 6s and 3s. They do on the Selects, but not on the regular Pro Plan. However, I'm sure they would tell you what they are if you contacted them.

    Having said this, this is why I feed the regular Pro Plan puppy (which has the same Ca & P levels as the LBP because Purina has "dummy proofed" their foods in the last few years). The LBP food is fine for pet pups but, for active pups in training, it doesn't cut it. They need more calories. As long as you watch their weight, the extra calories shouldn't be a problem.

    Just my 2c.
    ~Darcy Litzinger~
    Kinderwood Labradors
    BOB AKC CH ptd/BOB UKC CH/RBISP Intl/Nat Jugend CH Hayshaker's Kinderwood Charmed One CGC "Piper"
    AKC BOBP/UKC CH PTD Hayshaker Kinderwood Where R U Xmas "Faith"

    Gone too soon...
    HIT UCD Intl/Nat CH ptd/UKC CH ptd Bel Air Blue Chip Of Kinderwood CD RE JH CGC "Blue" 06/25/06-04/26/10...love you, "baby girl"!

Similar Threads

  1. Arkat VF Complete Large Breed Adult
    By Gary Sheets in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-20-2009, 07:45 PM
  2. Large breed puppy food
    By torg in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-30-2007, 02:29 PM
  3. Large Breed VS Performance Formula
    By LuvMyLab in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-08-2007, 04:52 PM
  4. Purina One Large Breed Adult vs Purina Pro Plan Performance
    By Georgia Smith in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-26-2007, 06:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •