Purina Response- Feeding Large Breed Puppies

[windycanyon]

I would like to add that the lineage you are dealing with has a lot to do with this. I started out w/ bigger labs-- and when LBP food first came out, I kept those those pups on it longer (~18 mos if I remember right). BUT, I wasn't doing as much w/ my dogs then either (to need more calories).

Now I've got "little" labs.... famales topping out at 60# and males averaging 75 (assuming the owners don't let them get fat... that's another story). So for my small, slow, even growing labs that are pretty well strung together by 1 yr, that seems to be a fine time to switch. If I had a Dane, Mastiff or St Bernard (or oversized Lab even), 2 yrs may well be the ticket as a large dog isn't well tied together yet until about that age. Interestingly enough there was a question on another lab forum recently polling weights--- I can't believe the number of 100+ lb labs out there.

[Bluebill]

Camden,
I add a 1/2 cup more than they recommend. Depending on how much I work my pups. If its winter I may even make it a extra cup. Especially if they are going on a few waterfowl hunts. The litter I have now I blend up 2 cups, what the pups don't finish Momma does.
Bluebill

[afdahl]

Having said that, Calcium & Phosporus as well as over all caloric intake needs to be watched carefully in Lab pups. Too much Ca & P can lead to joint malformations (because young pups don't have a mechanism to excrete excess Calcium) and too many calories can lead to the pup being overweight- which leads to joint problems as well.

Most Adult foods (though not all) these days do have acceptable levels of Ca & P for a "Large" breed pup, but you still need to read the label and be careful. And as long as you watch your pup's weight (keeping your pup on the lean side), you should be ok with the extra calories as well. Also, keep in mind that the amount of Ca & P listed in the Guaranteed Analysis is often a Minimum and not a Maximum, meaning the amount that's actually fed can be slightly higher than listed. This is why I personally won't feed a food that has more than a Min of 1.2% Ca listed in the GA to a growing pup.

The green Diamond ("Premium Adult") lists maximum as well as minimum percentages for Ca and P in their guaranteed analysis. The range is narrow and just what is specified for growing large breed puppies. It is really hard to evaluate all of the competing claims of the dog food manufacturers, but I like that about the Diamond.

Amy Dahl

[LabLady101]

The green Diamond ("Premium Adult") lists maximum as well as minimum percentages for Ca and P in their guaranteed analysis. The range is narrow and just what is specified for growing large breed puppies. It is really hard to evaluate all of the competing claims of the dog food manufacturers, but I like that about the Diamond.

Amy Dahl

That's good to know, Amy. Thanks! I know Purina and Iams/Eukanuba only list Mins, and I think there's a host of others that only list Mins as well. It's good to know at least one company (I think Nutro might as well?) states the Max too. Good on Diamond for doing that!

[Granddaddy]

I have found that working Lab pups between 12-24 mos do not get adequate calories from puppy formulas (Purina & others), i.e., I can't keep weight on these young dogs. So I routinely switch to adult performance formula at 10-12 mos based upon the individual dog's response to daily, heavy field work.

[Steve Hester]

I have found that working Lab pups between 12-24 mos do not get adequate calories from puppy formulas (Purina & others), i.e., I can't keep weight on these young dogs. So I routinely switch to adult performance formula at 10-12 mos based upon the individual dog's response to daily, heavy field work.

I agree with David. If the young dogs aren't getting much work, then fine, stick with the puppy food. But every dog is different. Their metabolism can vary greatly between any two dogs. The recommended feed amounts listed on the bags are only a guideline. Some dogs will have to have much less than the guidelines, and some will have to have much more than the guidelines, to maintain a healthy weight. I have one young dog now that we switched to adult formula at 12 months. We were having to feed him 6 cups a day of the puppy formula to keep him from looking emaciated. He now gets about 3 cups of the adult Performance Pro Plan. He is still thin, but very healthy.

[Vickie Lamb]

Just a note, Pro Plan Puppy (NOT the large-breed) has 18% fat which boosts calories...Large Breed Puppy has 12%. Of course, PP Performance is highest with 20%.

[Bud]

Here's the thorough explanation (and this is where it can get a bit confusing)...While Labs are most often grouped in with the "Large" Breed dogs because they tend to have the same joint issues, they aren't truly a "Large" breed dog. In fact, the standard actually describes them as a medium sized dog. And you'll find that's true when you compare Labs with other "Large" breed dogs such GSDs, Danes, Newfies, several Hounds, etc. So, their nutritional needs can be slightly different in comparison to other "Large" dogs- hence, why a lot of people do not wait a year or two to switch their Lab pups to Adult food. Having said that, Calcium & Phosporus as well as over all caloric intake needs to be watched carefully in Lab pups. Too much Ca & P can lead to joint malformations (because young pups don't have a mechanism to excrete excess Calcium) and too many calories can lead to the pup being overweight- which leads to joint problems as well.

Outside of side classification the response from purina does say above 50 lbs at maturity which should cover labs.

[Losthwy]

Reading through the posts seems many can't keep weight on their dogs. Which raises a question, is puppy food on the market developed for the common large breed pet AND the active large breed puppy??????
Below is a comparison of puppy and adult feeds. Definitely they are not the same feed in different bags. Three things jump out at me, which raises more questions.

First- Though the puppy food is higher in both protein and fat it is lower in kcal/cup. Are there less carbs in puppy food? If so is a high protein and fat/lower carb diet what we should be feeding active puppies?

Second- There is more than 4X the amount of Vitamin E in the adult feed. Could the amount of Vitamin E in adult food be harmful to puppies?

Third- Is the amount of Linoleic Acid contained in the adult feed enough for puppies?

Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy Pro Plan Large Breed Adult
28/13 26/12
Digestible Energy 398 kcal/cup Digestible Energy 423 kcal/cup
Linoleic Acid- 1.6% Linoleic Acid- 1.3%
Ca- 1.1% Ca- 1.0 %
P- .8% P- .8%
Se- .30mg/kg Se- .30mg/kg
Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg
Vitamin E- 100 iu/kg Vitamin E- 460 iu/kg

[LabLady101]

Reading through the posts seems many can't keep weight on their dogs. Which raises a question, is puppy food on the market developed for the common large breed pet AND the active large breed puppy??????
Below is a comparison of puppy and adult feeds. Definitely they are not the same feed in different bags. Three things jump out at me, which raises more questions.

First- Though the puppy food is higher in both protein and fat it is lower in kcal/cup. Are there less carbs in puppy food? If so is a high protein and fat/lower carb diet what we should be feeding active puppies?

Second- There is more than 4X the amount of Vitamin E in the adult feed. Could the amount of Vitamin E in adult food be harmful to puppies?

Third- Is the amount of Linoleic Acid contained in the adult feed enough for puppies?

Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy Pro Plan Large Breed Adult
28/13 26/12
Digestible Energy 398 kcal/cup Digestible Energy 423 kcal/cup
Linoleic Acid- 1.6% Linoleic Acid- 1.3%
Ca- 1.1% Ca- 1.0 %
P- .8% P- .8%
Se- .30mg/kg Se- .30mg/kg
Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg Vitamin A- 15,000 iu/kg
Vitamin E- 100 iu/kg Vitamin E- 460 iu/kg

Good post. Here's my take:

1. Protein & Fat do not matter nearly as much as Calcium & Phosphorus and watching weight overall. In fact, there are studies that actually show higher protein levels (of at least 26%) are better for and not detrimental for growing "Large" breed pups. Having said that, I wouldn't feed a pup a food that has say 42% protein.

2. Vitamin E (combined with Fish Oil) can actually help prevent and/or reduce joint inflammation. It's also used as an antioxidant as well as helps skin & hair.

3. Linoleic Acid is an Omega 6 dogs need. As long as the Omega 6s and 3s are properly balanced (should be as close to a 5 to 1 ratio as you can get), you should haven't any problems with either a puppy or a dog. I just wish Purina would specifically list their Omega 6s and 3s. They do on the Selects, but not on the regular Pro Plan. However, I'm sure they would tell you what they are if you contacted them.

Having said this, this is why I feed the regular Pro Plan puppy (which has the same Ca & P levels as the LBP because Purina has "dummy proofed" their foods in the last few years). The LBP food is fine for pet pups but, for active pups in training, it doesn't cut it. They need more calories. As long as you watch their weight, the extra calories shouldn't be a problem.

Just my 2c.