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Thread: Air Force Contract GDG

  1. #1
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    Default Air Force Contract GDG

    So Friday they are going to announce the winner for the aerial fuel tankers that has been a hot debate for several years following a scandal that rocked Boeing a bit. We had to rebid for the tankers and we are able to build them here in Everett WA with US persons. The alternative is to have Airbus/Northrup Gruman build planes in Mobile, Alabama with no tanker experience or with Boeing that has built them and have delivered them. The OLD KC's were built by Boeing and the new ones are modified 767's. So should the tanker deal go to Airbus/Northrup and have 25k jobs or Boeing that has experience with Defense Contracts and can support 44k jobs between 9k people employed here in Everett and the rest in Withita Kansas? What do you think and how angry would you be to see our technology go to France and our Taxpayer money go to them. This is a deal with billions and has 179 tanker order that could keep Boeing employees going for a long time on a dying plane program.

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    Senior Member Lady Hunter's Avatar
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    That's an easy question..........the answer is Alabama. Alabama is a Republican state and Washington isn't. Mississippi being Republican and very close to Alabama doesn't hurt either.
    Lady Hunter

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    The plane that will be built in Alabama is bigger, faster, carries more fuel, and carries more cargo. It is also less expensive. The KC-30 tanker also has a prototype flying right now. It received great reviews at the Paris air show.

    Boeing is over a year behind on their 767 foreign contracts and they do not have a tanker prototype that can fly.

    Finally, the only reason that this thing is even open to bid right now is that Boeing and the Air Force acted unscrupulously in the awarding of the intial contract.

    If the contract is given on merit it goes to Northop/EADS in Mobile, AL without question.
    "it all starts with sit" -- me

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    Having worked for both Boeing, Lockheed and then my own defense oriented avionics company over a 32 year career in the defense aviation business, I am convinced that selections of this magnitude rarely have anything in common with the best business decision. But I would have to allow that just making a decision of such significance on the basis of business economics may not be the best decision for the US military. That said, unfortunately the final selection usually has more to do with politics (like which states and their senators have the most influence), what new commands will be established within the military, i.e, who in the decision process will benefit most rather than complicance with the specifications, economics and what is best from a strategic military use position.
    David Didier, GA

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    We just delivered a tanker to Japan a little over two weeks ago. So you would not care if we sent our technology overseas? The 767 can land in more places and it is more fuel efficient. More people for work, there would only be an extra 9k people on this program up here and the rest will be in Wichita. A liveable wage for families. The reason we are behind is because of problem with the supplier chain. If Boeing would have kept the work in house we could have delivered a lot faster. With upcoming negotiations with SPEEA and the machinists unions we have a clause in our contract giving the machinists time to pull together to be able to prove that we can build parts here cheaper and better with SKILLED workers. Oh and that is EADS/Norhrup not the other way around. the bulk of the technology is going to France not to Mobile. The plane may be assembled there but they will be doing the technology at Toulouse.
    Last edited by sometimes a great notion; 02-28-2008 at 10:54 AM.

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    As a contractor myself, is this forum really the place to discuss your company's contracts?

    FOM
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    If you know anything about aircraft manufacturing the last thing you want to do is involve the French. I deal with several major French companies and they are my biggest headache bar none.

    My vote would be to send the tanker work to the Lazy B.
    But only if CSAR-X goes to Sikorsky. ;>)
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    Having retired from the BAC & having worked directly in the manufacturing of their product, I would like to offer a few comments.

    Toyota builds cars in this country, it's an economic issue - Where are those cars designed? Unless you believe that engineering talent is something that should be of no concern to this the country.

    This country is starving for the creativity that happens when bright minds start the thinking process. The offshoots of the Space Program, the ICBM programs & the technical requirements that were imposed on those programs have more than exceeded their initial cost in benefits to the taxpayer. This is not some politicians Stadium Project!

    Talking to a British Airways Customer Rep who was quite knowledgeable I asked his comparison of our product & brand X. His comment "Boeing builds a product that has more long term life, it is structurally more sound (this is the way the company operates) - Brand x builds a product that is more economical short term but will have higher repair costs down the road". I'm thinking - sort of like their Health Care plans!

    Boeing lost the C5-A program to an American company who had the wings designed in England. Boeing took their prototype & turned it into the 747 program. For those of you who have little aircraft history the C5-A was a disaster - Boeing structural engineers were asked to evaluate the issues with that airplane & propose a solution - I don't have their answer but you will notice the C5-A is no longer in use. Boeing's C5-A mockup sits on the East Gate road of Fort Lewis & is used by the military for loading - unloading practice.

    We all know how the 747 program worked out - over 1,000 & still counting! The fact that we had a couple of individuals with no integrity is not an issue - you notice what happens to people who believe they are bigger than the company philosophy - that is, if you read the news.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes a great notion View Post
    We just delivered a tanker to Japan a little over two weeks ago. So you would not care if we sent our technology overseas? The 767 can land in more places and it is more fuel efficient. More people for work, there would only be an extra 9k people on this program up here and the rest will be in Wichita. A liveable wage for families. The reason we are behind is because of problem with the supplier chain. If Boeing would have kept the work in house we could have delivered a lot faster. With upcoming negotiations with SPEEA and the machinists unions we have a clause in our contract giving the machinists time to pull together to be able to prove that we can build parts here cheaper and better with SKILLED workers. Oh and that is EADS/Norhrup not the other way around. the bulk of the technology is going to France not to Mobile. The plane may be assembled there but they will be doing the technology at Toulouse.
    A cesna can land more places and is more fuel efficient, but it doesn't make it a better re-fueler. The KC-30 is the better plane. I don't work for either company so I might be a little more objective than you. Your main reason for favoring Boeing (other than working there) is this "overseas" fear mongering. I could really care less where the parent company is. I drive a Toyota truck 'cuz it's the truck I thought was best. The KC-30 is the better plane for less money. It's a no-brainer.

    Obviously, you and I will never agree on this one
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOM View Post
    As a contractor myself, is this forum really the place to discuss your company's contracts?

    FOM
    Did you miss GDG? This is about what is good for the country & is an appropriate subject for this forum.
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