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Breeders, have you ever held on to a pup past 49 days to accomodate a buyer?

6K views 29 replies 20 participants last post by  Gerry Clinchy 
#1 ·
If so, how long?
 
#2 ·
The REAL question for me is..... have I ever had them all spoken for at 49 days.

The 49 day thing is a trial/Richard Wolters invented mess.
Almost any other sporting breed people keeps their pups together until the 8th, 9th or 10th week.

I am very willing to accomadate whatever a buyer that will be a good home for the life of the dog needs to get started right.

JK
 
#15 ·
The REAL question for me is..... have I ever had them all spoken for at 49 days.

The 49 day thing is a trial/Richard Wolters invented mess.

JK
Not really.

The 49-day thing first was published in Clarence Pfaffenberger's book, "The New Knowledge of Dog Behavior" (probably out of print now, but may be at your local library or on e-bay).

The author was doing work on dog developmental psychology to improve the success rate of guide dog pups raised by an organization in California (I forget their exact name right now.)

The organization had a high failure rate among the young dogs they raised for training, and were trying to find out how they could improve the success rate as the cost of raising the youngsters was high.

Knowing the information available can help a breeder do the best for the pups if they are not leaving for homes at 49 days. It's useful information.

But I am not paranoid about the 49-day deadline. One of my most treasured dogs stayed with the breeder to 9 weeks since it seemed better than taking the pup on a family vacation already planned. It worked out just fine. The pups were retrieving dead ducks by then :)

Also to note, the 8th week is a "fear" week. When pups leave at 49 days, I recommend that the family give the pup that week to adjust to its new home. Not the time to invite all the kids in the neighborhood in for a visit (and the likely chaos). The experience of traveling to a new home and adjusting to it is enough for a pup to handle during "fear" week. For novice dogowners, it could be a good idea to keep the pup with the breeder for week 8, and during that week take some time to give the pup individual attention that would be beneficial beyond week 7.
 
#3 ·
No Sherri.......You should send that pup to me immediately!!!! :D ;-)
 
#4 ·
Yes, I have kept them for a couple of weeks past the rest of the litter. Two weeks would be my limit without charging a fee.

tt
 
#5 ·
As long as socialization continues, I see nothing wrong with that. We sometimes have to keep them to 8 weeks so we can have their eyes CERFed.

Just keep feeding, playing with them and housebreaking and the buyer thinks you are wonderful. LOL
 
#6 ·
I am inclined to do it as the person is a retired serviceman coming from Singapore (he contacted me more than a month ago telling me he had requested to come to Alaska, was an avid upland and waterfowl hunter and wanted a pup as soon as he got here). He emailed today saying he was approved to come here and will arrive in July (pups would be ready to go 2nd week of May). He really would like us to hold the pup for him.

The 49 day thing is a trial/Richard Wolters invented mess.
Almost any other sporting breed people keeps their pups together until the 8th, 9th or 10th week.
I realize this, but it is a touch longer.

I am very willing to accomadate whatever a buyer that will be a good home for the life of the dog needs to get started right.
And that is the reason I am considering it. Just wondering if anyone else had done it.
 
#9 ·
I've held for a couple months for a family that was moving, they paid vet bills and basically a boarding fee, UP FRONT.
 
#10 ·
A friend of mine (Navy guy) who was entering his final shore duty before retiring had the breeder hold the dog for 2 months.

He also paid a fee for this. The breeder did a good job of socializing and some early bird and water exposure. Plus the pup was kept current on shots.

I would fully expect to pay for anything past a pup being 8 or 9 weeks. I'd rather not get a pup at 7 weeks.

If the guy balks at a reasonable fee, you probably don't want him to have one of your pups anyway.

Brian
 
#11 · (Edited)
No, I won't hold them that long but under those circumstances and with you willing to do it, he must pay for the dog and I would charge him board or puppy training prices for 2 months, all paid up front or no deal. You can make it $250 a month which is reasonable for housebreaking, socialization, puppy training but again, paid up front. Vet visits would be extra. I will hold pups under special circumstances if it is discussed before and the puppy is paid in full, for a week and maybe up to 2 weeks because my pups often don't go until 8 weeks which is my preference. I will not hold if all of a sudden the buyer decides he's going to go down south to see his other dog on pick-up weekend because I think he is not making that puppy his priority.
 
#12 ·
The breeders of my latest pup held it a few weeks longer as they were coming south for winter trip to avoid having to ship pup. Sure was happy about that.
 
#14 ·
I am holding a pup now for an extra month. the new buyers expected to pay more, no big deal if you have the room and time.

Jason
 
#17 ·
Hi, I will keep them up to 10 weeks of age with no extra charge. Our puppies are sold prior to the breeding taking place in most cases and we take a nonrefundable deposit to hold their spot so most people are serious and we have only ever had 1 person back out. Most people want the puppy at 7 weeks but if they have a good reason for not being able to come at that time I am happy to accomodate. Anything after 10 weeks of age I charge for vaccines, food, and the funds for the original purchase price must be paid in full by 8 weeks of age. Then I also charge a fee to crate/house train the puppy and continue its socialization. A house/crate trained puppy will cost $500 extra plus the vaccines and food. I don't keep them after 4 months of age unless they want them as a started dog in which case they are kept until at least a year old and have the basic obedience, FF, and CC done.

Danielle
 
#18 ·
I have a litter coming and a gal was talking to me and asked if I would potty train the dog before the came and picked him up! Her exact words were I dont want my carpet to smell!! I said lady you will not be getting a pup from me!! and she turned around and walked away!! Kevin
 
#19 ·
I have a litter coming and a gal was talking to me and asked if I would potty train the dog before the came and picked him up! Her exact words were I dont want my carpet to smell!! I said lady you will not be getting a pup from me!! and she turned around and walked away!! Kevin
I have a friend new to hunting who asked the same thing of me. I told him no. He said, "You already have five dogs whats one more." I almost kicked him in the junk.

tt
 
#20 · (Edited)
Also to note, the 8th week is a "fear" week. When pups leave at 49 days, I recommend that the family give the pup that week to adjust to its new home.
I don't care what some psychologist says, this has never been my experience. I find pups at 8 weeks much better adjused than those pushed out the door at 7 weeks to make a schedule. They are bolder and much better able to adapt to a new situation with less stress. They must not know 8 weeks is a fear stage. I also thing the 49 day thing pertained more to pups raised in a multi-litter situation where they don't get individual attention and socialization. LVL wrote a great post on why the methods of Scott & Fuller, Pfaffenberger, et. al from the 60's were outmoded because now most pups are raised under different conditions.
 
#23 ·
I don't care what some psychologist says, this has never been my experience. I find pups at 8 weeks much better adjused than those pushed out the door at 7 weeks to make a schedule. They are bolder and much better able to adapt to a new situation with less stress. They must not know 8 weeks is a fear stage.
========
Nancy, I don't think this contradicts the 8th week "fear" theory.

Your observation that pups leaving at 8 wks do better than pups leaving at 7 wks, may support that fact. If they stay in their familiar surroundings from week 7 to week 8, they then have passed the "fear" week and may, indeed, adjust better when they go to new homes then.
*******

[Nancy] I also thing the 49 day thing pertained more to pups raised in a multi-litter situation where they don't get individual attention and socialization. LVL wrote a great post on why the methods of Scott & Fuller, Pfaffenberger, et. al from the 60's were outmoded because now most pups are raised under different conditions.
=======
I would also agree that many of us have learned a lot more since Pfaffenberger's book was written, and we do a lot more to stimulate our puppies individually during the time they stay with their litter.

OTOH, we can't totally ignore developmental psychology. Human children will not talk until a certain age because their brain & physiology need to develop to a certain point. Dams will not regurgitate food for pups until Mother Nature tells them that the pups are ready to begin eating more solid food than mother's milk.

Knowing more about the developmental psychology of canines can allow us to present them with the stimulation that is appropriate to their physiological capabilities at various ages. For example, we know puppies can learn a great deal from a very early age, but we can also notice that their attention span is not as long as a more mature dog. So, we adapt our eaching to that factor.

Some of Pfaffenberger's may not be 100% what we agree with today, but there are concepts from his book that have enlightened us over time. And some of his stuff may still be helpful to us today.
 
#21 ·
Thinking that's where Richard got his 411 from. It's all relative. If they sit in the whelping box getting no stim then............

If they are raised like most of the people in this game raise them, giving every oppurtunity to be successful.

JK
 
#22 ·
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. They were very helpful. I have spoken with the future owner and he was very receptive to doing what was required to make it work.
 
#24 ·
Your observation that pups leaving at 8 wks do better than pups leaving at 7 wks, may support that fact. If they stay in their familiar surroundings from week 7 to week 8, they then have passed the "fear" week and may, indeed, adjust better when they go to new homes then.
Then with that line of thinking, 49 days would be the worst time to go to a new home so why do they contradict themselves and say it's the ideal day to leave? I find that litters develop at different rates. Some c-section litters may be behind as well as some large litters. I reserve the right to decide when they leave as to how they are progressing.
 
#26 ·
Yup, you would be correct. I believe, over time, people came to place over-emphasis on 49 days being "magical". I view it as a "guideline". And, perhaps, over time, people seemed to overlook the entire content of the development timeline. A friend drew my attention to the 8-wk "fear" period. I had overlooked that, too, initially!

With the input from the friend, I found her to be correct. I have always taken the 49-day thing to mean that is when the litter should ideally be separated from each other. That is when they begin to establish their pack leadership heirarchy. The book also refers to a "critical" period between 7 to 12 wks of age during which a lot of learning takes place. I'm afraid it's been a long time since I read the book, so my recall is not total.

I think it makes some sense, too, for a pup leaving at 7 wks to be given some time to adjust to its new home. There are a lot of new experiences in that alone.

I recall somewhere reading that if only one pup can leave at 7 wks, hope it is the pack leader. Then the remaining pups will have to re-arrange their heirarchy since the leader is gone.

There is no doubt in my mind that from that age, they benefit a lot from individual attention. I also believe they begin to benefit from individual attention at a younger age than that. I handle the pups frequently from the day they are born.

New research has shown as well that there are some types of physical stimulation from day of birth that can help pups learn to handle stress better in later life. There are some breeders who make a point of using this information as well.

When I have pups staying beyond 7 wks (which is fairly often), I make it a point to give each pup its own special attention without interference from the rest of the pack.

Again, I think that we should use what is helpful and makes sense within the environment our own pups are given.

We absolutely should use our own common sense in evaluating the puppies at our feet. Within each litter there can be differing personalities. One may benefit by leaving the pack at 7 wks. Another may benefit by remaining for an additional week. I can think of two pups who stayed with me till 9 and 12 wks respectively and were none the worse for it. They fit into their new homes very well. The 12-wk boy has a CDX, TDX, MX, MXJ; lives with two Aussies. The 9 wk boy is an unofficial "greeter" at a beauty salon. The 12-wk boy was a more "thoughtful" puppy; the 9-wk boy was a "high roller" type. Both made the adjustments required by their new homes. A "guideline" helped in giving them a good start before they left for their forever homes.

Our retrievers seem to be especially resilient in many ways. I have also placed older dogs (and acquired older dogs) who have adjusted well to changing homes.
 
#25 ·
I am currently raising a pup, who will go off for basics in June.

I am interested in a pup, who will ship in May. I asked the breeders if they could hold onto the puppies for an additional two weeks, and deliver the puppy in Stowe.

I am thankful that they agreed to do so.
 
#28 ·
Darn,thought I posted this a couple pages back. Check out http://wpgcaerf.freeservers.com Look up, The 49TH DAY REVISITED------What I gathered was 49 days was the earliest,,,8-10 wks optimal,but so much depends on what is going on at the breeders vs what you can bring to the table. Paco
 
#30 ·
Since I've seen that there are several "newbies" on the list, some may not be familiar with the references that have been made about the "magical" 49th day.

On another list, I found a good summary of it:


The original research for periods in puppy
development is the work by Scott and Fuller at
Bar Harbor Labs in the early 1960s. Charles
Pfaffenberger brought this to the attention of
the dog fancy in New Knowledge Of Dog Behavior,
and especially its pratical and effective
application with guide dog/puppy selection and
training.

The idea of 49 days being when the puppy is
a "blank slate", when you should puppy test, and
the ideal time to take a puppy home come from
the work of Scott and Fuller as popularized by
Pfaffenberger. It was repeated in all sorts of
dog training and puppy selction books during the
60's and 70's.

Fortunately we have gotten away from considering
49 days as an absolute, and now recoginize that
there are differences between litters and
individuals. Think of the 49 day mark as being
like saying a bitch whelps 63 days after
breeding.
 
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