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Thread: Movement of guns while dog is enroute to the bird

  1. #1
    Senior Member JKL's Avatar
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    Default Movement of guns while dog is enroute to the bird

    When will this stop ?

  2. #2
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    By "this" I guess you mean movement? Some movement will always exist. Such as gunners sitting down, or opening their guns.

    Movement of a few feet to retire will probably always be around to some extent.

    What kind of movement are you referring to specifically? Sounds like something you didn't like this weekend.


    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL View Post
    When will this stop ?
    It won't,,,, just train for it. It's not that hard.

    Angie

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    Senior Member DMA's Avatar
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    Angie is right, training for it is the best. There are several drills where the gunner moves from one gun station to another in a stickman pattern while the dog is enroute.

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    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    From the current FT rulebook, Standard Procedure, Chapter 8:

    8. On marked retrieves, a dog should be able to see
    each bird in the air and as it falls, and the Guns should be
    so stationed as to be conspicuous to and easily identified
    by the dog. No Dry Guns should be stationed in the field
    and visible to the dog while a marking test is run, or while
    the marking portion of a combination mark / blind test is
    run. Guns may be requested to shoot twice at every bird.
    After birds have been shot, all Guns shall remain quiet
    and only move their positions in accordance with specific
    instructions by Judges. Judges may instruct Guns and
    their associated bird thrower to retire from the sight of
    the dog or dogs on line provided that such instructions
    should provide all reasonable assurance that the movement
    of the Guns and thrower will not distract the running
    dog from viewing the marks thrown and to be
    thrown as part of the test, or divert the running dog from
    proceeding to the first bird for which the dog is sent
    .

    Retired Guns and throwers should be concealed by a
    blind with adequate natural camouflage or by adequate
    natural cover as close as possible to the place from
    which the mark was thrown or shot and so located as to
    minimize the development of a trail that will lead the
    running dog away from the area of the fall. In no circumstances
    should the judges have the guns move to
    another position to mislead dogs in their marking.
    No
    blinds should be placed in the field in a marking test
    except in accordance with the provisions set forth in
    this paragraph or for the purpose of protecting the running
    dogs from injury by unseen hazards.
    I don't quite know where to start here....

    The above pretty much gives all the guidance anyone who ever sits in the chair would need with regard to movement of gunners/throwers BEFORE THE DOG IS SENT. It shouldn't happen. The Standard Procedure gives guidance on how it is to be avoided.

    That said, Angie's right. Somehow, the above passage still doesn't keep it from EVER happening.

    Now, from the other side of the coin....when else are the gunners supposed to move? When the dog is released to retrieve, the gunners should move THEN to either sit down where instructed or retire to where instructed. If they're moving any other time, there are mechanical issues that need to be addressed by the judges or the stake marshal.

    That's all I've got with no more specific situational info to work with.

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

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    Senior Member JKL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B View Post
    It won't,,,, just train for it. It's not that hard.

    Angie
    I have been competitive in the game long enough to get that part. Thats not the point.

    When the last bird down has gunners literally running to a holding blind, drawing the attention of every running dog to the extent they follow the kids to the blind therefore detracting from their marking, actually causing a pop on one dog vs going directly to the mark, I question this.

    I guess as a judge myself I wonder why I work so hard to do the right thing when so many competitors out there just dont care. Maybe I take this too seriously, maybe I should lighten up?

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    I have to agree totally and a particular test last fall immediately comes to mind. Some things will never change. You can only bring it to every ones attention and hope some one will listen.

    I’m also surprised at how many tests I’m seeing that the judges can’t see the hunts. How can you judge a dog’s hunt that you can’t see?

    Tony
    Tony Allen

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    Senior Member Margo Ellis's Avatar
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    I am sure you can train for it but we are dealing with prey animals here, movement causes them to follow either with their eyes or their feet.

    Always try to set a good example I say, but you can't help stupid from happening.
    Margo Ellis

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    I do understand your point. And I don't think it's the competitors that don't care. They do. Why else would there be marking drills for the competitor to address this very problem?

    Gunners walking, running, wiggling back to the holding blind happens every weekend. No one likes it. We can just be prepared the best we can for it...

    Angie

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    Senior Member JKL's Avatar
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    I would like to hear some feedback on a related question.
    How would you judge the pop that occurred?
    The dog was sent for the go-bird and the kids began moving to the blind. The dog saw them and ran after them as did 12 other dogs that ran the test. As they ducked into the blind he was on their tail. The pop was a quick stop at the holding blind. The dog did not sit, just a quick stop for maybe 30 seconds looking back to the handler with a puzzled look then without any direction from the handler the dog resumed his quest for the bird. He had a couple of circles behind the blind then went in front to the bird.
    How would you judge this?

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