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Thread: I heard...

  1. #1
    Cassy's mom

    Question I heard...

    I have this beautiful CLF and was told that it would be irresponsible to breed her with my friends YLM.
    I don't understand since they are both great personal gun dogs. The trainer I talked to told me the yellow and chocolate were both recessive genes and the pups could turn out with a bunch of bad traits/health issues.

    ANYONE ever breed a chocolate female and a yellow male?

    Results of the pups?

    Thank you!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Last Frontier Labs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    North Pole, Alaska


    Do you even know if your chocolate carries yellow or if the yellow carries chocolate?
    You might end up with an all black litter.

    Most breeders don't mix yellow and chocolate because the breeding might produce Dudleys. Dudley have no black pigment. Pink noses, pink eyerims, lips etc. Just not very attractive.

    Seriously though, you've got more to worry about than color.
    Hips, Eyes, Elbows, CNM, PRA and EIC to name a few.
    Be responsible and do a little research before you throw your dogs together.
    Last edited by Last Frontier Labs; 03-22-2008 at 12:17 PM.
    Sherri Young

    "It's the journey that's important, with experience and knowledge to be gained along the way, in the company of our faithful dogs and our good friends."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #3
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Yardley, PA


    It's difficult to reply to your question without asking a lot of questions about whether this breeding makes sense even the absence of color considerations. I'll assume that each dog has a strong pedigree (evidenced by a majority of titled dogs) and that each dog has been genetically evaluated for hips, elbows, eyes and CNM. If not, the breeding is irresponsible no matter what the color of dogs.

    I have also heard that one should avoid breeding chocolates to yellows and that's it's generally better to have at least one black parent. I don't think there is any real merit to this. However, it is true that the overall gene pool is much deeper with black labs and that in breeding chocolates and, to a lesser extent, yellows, you have fewer strong pedigrees to work with. Personally, I have a chocolate, a yellow, and two black females and simply plan breedings appropriately.

    The only specific problem I know of in breeding yellows to chocolates is that you may be surprised by the color results in the litter. You can see the possibilities at http://vetgen.com/chromagene-coat-color.html. In addition, you should be aware that any yellows born will generally have liver-colored noses rather than black noses since they will probably be chocolate factored. If your friend's yellow has a liver colored nose, it is probably already chocolate factored, in which case you may have an all chocolate litter.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Cleo Watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Tylertown, MS


    We avoid it as we were told that in time this will darken the yellows and lighten the chocolates, sometimes resulting in the undesirable 'rusty' colored chocolate and redish colored yellows. Personally I like the dark liver chocolate and the creamy shades of yellow. Kinda like a good Boston Cream Pie - yummie.

    Liver pigment in yellows is NOT a Dudley Nose - a Dudley has NO pigment - like the cute little albino Easter Bunnies. Happy Easter to ALL.
    A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart.

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Detroit Lakes, MN


    Go to www.labbies.com. They have two good articles there about color inheritance. Also, www.vetgen.com does a genetic test for color and it can now go beyond black, yellow, and chocolate to look at other color modifier genes.

    Remember too that "recessive" does not always equate to "bad". In fact, most forms of genes are probably "neutral" for the fitness of an animal. There are also deleterious genes or "bad" forms of genes that are dominant.

  8. #6
    Cassy's mom


    Thank you. I know about certifications and love both dogs. Their gundog traits compliment each other.
    My CLF is from a sire w/great titled chocolates and her dam is yellow. The YLM is from Lean Mac lineage that are all mixed yellow and black litters.
    I'll research them a bit more and then decide after the OFA results come back before I decide if I'll breed them or not.
    I just wanted to know if anyone on here had experienced issues breeding yellows & chocolates.

  9. #7
    Senior Member Amy Avery's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Newport, NC


    Im still thinking about breeding my chocolate female to FC CAFC Copper he is yellow but he carries chocolate, she does not carry yellow, so the pups woud be blacks and chocolates.
    No matter how little money and how few possessions you own, having a Labrador Retriever makes you rich!


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