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Thread: 2008 RABIES--Report on Adverse Vaccine Reactions in Dogs & Vaccine info

  1. #11
    Senior Member Kris L. Christine's Avatar
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    Buck,

    If you reread the report, which is entitled Postmarketing Surveillance of Rabies Vaccines for Dogs to Evaluate Safety and Efficacy."
    you will note that only the 246 adverse reactions to the rabies vaccine reported directly to the Center for Veterinary Biologics by the public, veterinarians, and pet owners had 72% of the dogs receiving other vaccines or drugs at the same time as the rabies shot. That is not the case further on in the report where they discuss the 10,000 adverse reactions reported by the rabies vaccine manufacturers, 65% of which were in dogs.

    It does state that the "overall adverse report rate for rabies vaccines was determined to be 8.3 reports/100,000 doses sold." They do not state that it is 8.3 adverse reactions per 100,000 doses. If 8.3 reports is "only about 1% of serious events are reported to the FDA," as Dr. David Kessler, former head of the Food & Drug Administration, stated, then that would translate into a more accurate figure of 830 adverse reactions per 100,000 doses.

    The report does state that "Rabies vaccines are the most common group of biological products identified in adverse event reports received by the CVB." It also states that "The rabies vaccines for dogs are highly efficacious and a vital component of asuccessful rabies animal control program," which I absolutely agree with.

    My concern with the rabies vaccine is that there is scientific data indicating that states requiring annual or triennial boosters after the puppyhood vaccines are requiring dogs to be vaccinated against rabies too often and are needlessly exposing them to the risk of adverse side affects (1992 French challenge study led by Michel Aubert demonstrating 5 year minimum duration of immunity; serological studies by Dr. Ronald Schultz incorporated into the American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines showing dogs have antibody titer counts at levels known to confer immunity to rabies 7 years after vaccination.)

    If you are familiar with the Center for Disease Control's MMWR Recommendations and Reports March 22, 1991/40(RR03);1-19 Rabies Prevention-- United States, 1991 Recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00041987.htm , it states that"A fully vaccinated dog or cat is unlikely to become infected with rabies, although rare cases have been reported (48). In a nationwide study of rabies among dogs and cats in 1988, only one dog and two cats that were vaccinated contracted rabies (49). All three of these animals had received only single doses of vaccine; no documented vaccine failures occurred among dogs or cats that had received two vaccinations. " .
    Kris L. Christine
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Buck Mann's Avatar
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    My only point is that when you cherry pick parts of a study to prove a point, that is opposite of the findings in the study, you lose credibility.

    Those reading the study should be reassured of the safety and efficacy of the rabies vaccines. Not the opposite.

    I'm not going to get in a debate and this will be my last post on this thread. Hopefully everyone is aware of the guidelines and can discuss them with their Veterinarian and not make decisions based on internet posts.

    Buck

  3. #13
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    I personally view vaccinations, just like I view getting my annual tax returns done. I could spend lots of my valuable personal time keeping up on the updates, the laws, the studies and the changes.

    Or, I could pay someone a very reasonable fee, whom I trust, to keep up on all of that stuff for me. I trust them, they take care of me reasonably, and my taxes are done with little personal expense and virtually no need for time spent.

    I look at trusting a veterinarian the exact same way. I don't have the time or the desire to keep up on Kris' bolded, exclamation point marked study after study. If some of you do, great. That's good for you.

    I've had dogs all of my life. I've trusted my vets all of my life. Maybe I'm in the minority, but thus far, other than a dog napping a little more than usual after a shot (and man, oh man, how I would love to see my current pup nap a little more once in a while!) I've had no adverse issues to report.

    Similarly, RTF's readership represents a very broad cross-section of retriever owners. I'm not aware of RTF folks having recurring or widely-experienced problems due to vaccines.

    This reminds me of a very close friend of mine who is a chiropractor. When my first child was born, we were provided with plenty of data showing that child vaccines caused autism and such. My buddy is able to get all of his kids into schools, bypassing mandatory vaccination records for his children, citing such things as personal religous beliefs, or whatever.

    His point was that his kids are never sick, and don't need the vaccinations. I love my buddy like a brother. But I think back to FDR who had polio and was in a wheelchair. I think back to historical times when various diseases plagued various societies. I believe that a big reason that my buddy's kids are not having more health issues, without having to do vaccinations, is because they are riding the coat-tails of the generations that preceded who did take advantage of various medical breakthroughs, and utilize available vaccinations.

    Both of my sons had major problems at birth. Both, we were told, were close to death, both, we were told had a decent chance of some sort of brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. Both, thanks to the modern medical capabilities, spent quite a bit of time in Neonatal ICU units, and both are fine today. My kids are on the modern-day vaccination schedule exactly as suggested by their pediatrician.

    You guys can all do what you want regarding canine vaccines. Until I see real evidence of real people having real problems with their dogs getting sick, dying, etc. as a result of vaccines, I'm going to continue to trust my vet and use vaccinations as recommended and suggested.

    I think that Buck has valid concerns. I think that those of us with vets like Ed Aycock, Nate Baxter, Rick Jackson, and the list goes on, are getting advice identical to what these guys are doing for their own animals. In the case of Nate, I know that's the case because he's my breeder and we have littermates! Our vets are here to earn a fair living, doing what they enjoy, and are not trying to hose us with extra vaccinations that may kill or seriously injure our dogs.

    I've communicated privately with Buck on this matter and I know that this is all he's trying to point out. When the general readers see these studies, marked up with bolds, exclamation points, bright fonts, with excerpts pointing to suggestions that our dogs' health is in danger if we follow our vets' advice, some may make decisions that are truly not truly in the best interest of our animals.

    As I've pointed out to Kris privately, some do see value in her posts. I have also asked Kris to join RTF as a dog owner and be a participant on RTF in a manner that complements her vaccination awareness posts.

    I will also point out that I've had PM suggestions that Kris' posts appear to be endorsing some sort of a vaccine awareness fund. The waters can get a bit muddy when we're working to raise funds, while pointing out that others are doing something less than admirable, part of which is intended to generate sales.

    I dunno guys. I trust my vets and so far, they've never done me wrong. I've been blessed with healthy dogs. Most of my buddies have had the same experience.

    Chris

  4. #14
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    Thank you Cris, couldn't say it better. Agree. When my vet retires, so do we! Bill
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    Last edited by Bill Watson; 08-28-2011 at 11:22 PM.

  5. #15
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    Great post Chris.

    Just to remind everyone, there are more adverse and even more serious reactions to common aspirin, something we are being told to take to save our lives during a heart attack.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  6. #16
    Senior Member Andy Carlson's Avatar
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    I took all the dogs in for heartworm checks yesterday and 3 of them got a Lymes booster. I have had my own dogs since 1977 and this is only the second time I have had a dog have a reaction to a vaccination.

    Last night Briezy was pretty low key and had a hard time climbing into my lap to watch TV. Today she is still low key, and is very reluctant to sit and is acting very sore. I called the emergency clinic and they said it sounds like a reaction to the vaccination and that to keep an eye on her but the soreness should be gone in a few days. No fever and she is eating, drinking and having normal airing activity.

    Will this make me stop vaccinating my dogs - absolutely not! I follow the guidelines that my vet recommends.

    Back in the late '80's I had a puppy go into anaphylactic shock from a corona vaccination. That was the last corona vaccination she ever got but never had problems with any others. But that is one reason why I let my vet do the vaccinating - I do not do them at home.

    I think everybody just needs to trust their vet and do what they feel is best for their dogs.

    Andy
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  7. #17
    Super Moderator Vicky Trainor's Avatar
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    Andy, like you, I recently had all of my dogs to the vet to receive the boosters on vaccines as needed. My vet discussed with me what each needed and didn't need. No adverse reactions. I also had my equine vet out last Thursday to booster the vaccines they needed. He also talked with me about what was needed and not needed.

    I trust my vets. I know from discussions with them that they are staying on top of research and literature regarding vaccines. After almost 20 years of using them, I know that they have my animals' best care in mind when they see them. I don't plan to make decisions based on what I read on the internet. I will discuss such information with them and I know that they will research to find the answer if they don't already know. I remember years ago when I first discussed CNM with my canine vet. She immediately did additional research, including keeping up to date via the CNM website. I referred a client of mine that has a dog with CNM to her.

    So, until I have DVM or VMD behind my name, I will continue to trust my vets and vaccinate my animals.
    Vicky
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Kris L. Christine's Avatar
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    Vicky,

    You are fortunate to have a veterinarian who is up to date on current research and will openly discuss vaccine issues with you -- not every dog owner is so fortunate, and you are probably much more informed than the average dog owner.

    Dog owners should do their homework on veterinary vaccines and discuss a protocol with their veterinary care provider before they vaccinate their dogs.
    Kris L. Christine
    Founder, Co-Trustee
    THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
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  9. #19
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    Nice post Mr Atkinson!!

  10. #20
    Senior Member jeff t.'s Avatar
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    I agree with most of what Chis A. had to say with the caveat that it is important to me I communicate with my vet to make sure he understands the lives my dogs lead, how important my dogs are to me (including some sense of time and $$ spent on them), that he understands my concerns regarding health risk from over vaccination while at the same time wanting protection from disease.

    I view my vet as a partner in the health care of my dogs. Before we administer any meds, there is a discussion of pros/cons, other options, etc.

    Regarding rabies, we follow the state mandated vaccination protocol...period. For other contagious diseases, we generally reduce the vaccination frequency and monitor titers in the interim.

    Tomorrow, I meet with the vet to discuss whether to vaccinate for Lyme, since Sinner will be in Wisconsin all summer.

    It isn't a one-size-fits-all situation IMO.
    Jeff Telander
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