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Thread: 2008 RABIES--Report on Adverse Vaccine Reactions in Dogs & Vaccine info

  1. #61
    Member Polarsled's Avatar
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    I agree, rabies vaccination in the U.S has been very successful. I am not saying not to vaccinate. I am questioning the validity of our vaccination process. 75% of rabies cases in the U.S come from Bats. Transmission from dogs in this country is very rare, due to the vaccination program for Rabies. The issue come in on over vaccination. You do not have to be a Medical expert to do your research and make a decision. If you have an illness, you talk to a few doctors, and then YOU make the decision on what you are going to do. I am not saying your conclusion will be the same as mine, but you do have the ability to come to a conclusion, not matter what it is. When I mention research, I am talking about research of Medical doctors, there research and opinions. I have never been one to just believe, or go along with something or someone just because. Others may do what they choose, thats all.
    Maine - The way life should be

  2. #62
    Member Polarsled's Avatar
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    Keith, I am sure you have, but I would research Leptospirosis, your vet is not alone on this one.
    Maine - The way life should be

  3. #63
    Senior Member Lisa Van Loo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarsled View Post
    Lisa, yes, there is a confinement period for dogs coming to the U.S that do not have rabies vaccination, or within 30 days. This is what I was referring to. I was in Iraq for 4 years, and this is what we had to do. You can look it up on cdc.gov website

    It is what I was talking about. For puppies under vaccination age, they have to be confined. Here's the word from CDC:

    "Unvaccinated dogs must be vaccinated within 4 days of arrival at their final U.S. destination and within 10 days of entry into the United States, and must be kept in confinement for at least 30 days after the date of vaccination."

    As I said, you cannot bring an unvaccinated dog into the US. It *must* be vaccinated, either before, or immediately after, it enters the country.

    Look, you and I can go round and round about this all day long. The bottom line is, you inhabit your own reality, where you reject any and all facts that do not fit in with your own preconceived notions. You are free to do so. But don't make out like it is the rest of us that are wrong. We have our own realities, too, and there is a wide range of experience on this board.

    Are you a vet? You give vaccination recommendations such as type, frequency, etc. While you are free to do as you choose with your own animals, based upon your own beliefs, maybe you should temper your recommendations to others with a little bit about your background. What qualifies you to make vaccination recommendations to others?

    Lisa
    "Go sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here." - Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets

    http://www.chessieinfo.net

  4. #64
    Senior Member DrCharlesBortellPhD's Avatar
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    And the understanding on the frequency in the medical field to administer a rabies booster lies the problem. Chelsea's rescuer & vet is a follower of using the 3-year booster, while Chelsea's 1st vet was mixed- used 1 year boosters for some dogs and the other vet (in the same practice) used a 3-year booster
    Before moving here (MC), Chelsea's normal vet left the area. Due to environmental conditions, wanted to vaccinate her for any perceivable problem (ie giardia etc). The vet that treated her gave a rabies booster (was 2 yrs ago - 3 yr booster since last shots). He wanted to re-vaccinate with a rabies booster every 6 month (he does it for ALL dogs). (Chelsea had shots in 2/08 and was due for this 2nd booster 8/08 (never got to make trip due to distance.) I am not too sure I agree with the every 6 months approach. Esp with the reactions she got from a 3-shot series where she almost died. I am planning to make the trip this month and will get her re-innoculated since it is now closer to the 1 year time frame. This vet has recently graduated and lectures at the school in Temple. His father is faculty at the same school. This vet explained the current approach to rabies vaccinations is a low-dose and frequent innoculation mandate taught at the school. He is totally against a 3-year vaccination.
    Point of all this. To llustrate the different approaches and practices to administer rabies vaccines. As Lisa said, the internet offers a wide spectrum of philosophies as well as different practicing vets. This contradictory ideology
    seems to be partially responsible for the confusion for pet owners to make well informed decision as to when to innculate. Rabies laws are Federal statues. Each individual state inforces these laws, but has descretion on madating when & how often. This also can create confusion.
    (currious - this vet (6 month approach) is practicing from the Banfield practices located in some Petsmarts. Wondering if other Banfield vets are following this philosophy of every 6 months too or if it is solely followed by this vet only. Other words, anyone who uses this service experience similiar ideogies). Charlie

  5. #65
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    To llustrate the different approaches and practices to administer rabies vaccines. As Lisa said, the internet offers a wide spectrum of philosophies as well as different practicing vets. This contradictory ideology seems to be partially responsible for the confusion for pet owners to make well informed decision as to when to innoculate.
    I would not expect everyone to have the same opinions on this subject, but when one person gives there opinion as "Exact", it rubs me the wrong way. Most of us have the ability to research, think for ourselves, and form our own opinions.
    Don't give up your day job to lecture Immunology because some of your "facts" sound like they were found not on medical sites, but on non-medical holistic sites where they are blending them all together. Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true. If you don't have the background it's easy to get confused and cherry pick out what works for your beliefs.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  6. #66
    Member Polarsled's Avatar
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    I apologize for not stating more clearly, unlike some, these are just my opinions from my research and everyone needs to make there own decisions. I thought I had said this before. I guess part of the problem is I should have put quotes around some of my information showing it was from others. Since I did not quote them exact, I did not do this.
    These vaccination schedules were from the above mentioned Doctors in my posts, and others. I should have made that more clear.

    My point on all this is just because there is laws, rules, information, does not mean it is correct. On the other hand, any information I choose to believe, does not mean it is correct either. I make my own informed decisions, and then go from there.

    Lisa, I could have worded more clearly. You also should stop picking sentences out of laws and leaving out the rest to try to make your point. Example is when you chose to say the dogs will be put down, period. As you can see, that is not correct information. I do like these discussions because I am always learning, and drives me to do more research.

    Thanks
    Maine - The way life should be

  7. #67
    Member Polarsled's Avatar
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    You are correct Nancy, never doubted that. Who is to say what is correct? Is what you believe in the only or Correct way? These are just opinions, never said otherwise. How can anyone debate without opinions? Actually, opinions really don't have to be based on fact. I don't disagree with too much that has been said, I think if you look at the whole picture, we are probably very close to being on the same page.

    You infer the Holistic way is not the best choice, you did this by the way your post is worded. This may be for another topic, but why do you think Holistic is not correct, do you have an opinion.
    Maine - The way life should be

  8. #68
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarsled View Post

    You infer the Holistic way is not the best choice, you did this by the way your post is worded. This may be for another topic, but why do you think Holistic is not correct, do you have an opinion.
    Some of the holistic websites are pure poppycock with little science and a lot of hocus pocus. I do many things Holistically with supplements that boost the immune system and I find some holistic and herbal remedies helpful, but I also incorporate my medical background and knowledge, and where the animals are concerned, will side with medicine to protect my dogs. I've never had problems with my dogs and vaccines or the pups sold either. I believe in building a good immune system from before conception I don't think you have those problems. Some of the people that feel strongest may have had dogs from stock that had immune problems. I have modified my vaccination schedules and I separate the vaccines but I won't rely on titers because of the wide variability between laboratories in methodology and reporting, and the fact that there are 2 types of immunity measured, cellular and humoral, which means the titer may not reveal actually how protected the dog is, or in other words, you may have false confidence. I wouldn't trust going to a big trial or dog event if my dogs and others' weren't properly immunized and have them needlessly get sick or die because I lost one dog to cancer and blamed a rabies vaccine and didn't vaccinate my dogs. Why go back to the dark ages and tempt fate.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  9. #69
    Member Polarsled's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post Nancy, this gives me some helpful information to help in my research. I don't always agree that today's way is the best way, I am not just talking with this subject. I guess that is why I look for as much information as I can get. Times change, science changes and so will our opinions.

    Thanks
    Maine - The way life should be

  10. #70
    Senior Member Kris L. Christine's Avatar
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    RHODE ISLAND Rabies Law--Move to Change to 3 Year

    Pet Owners in Rhode Island led by Jani Wolstenholme have initiated a legislative effort to change the state's 2 year rabies booster law to the national 3 year standard (see below).

    What You Can Do to Help:

    Contact your legislator and ask them to introduce a bill changing the 2 year booster requirement to conform to the 3 year protocol recommended by the National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians Rabies Compendium and ask your pet-owning friends to do the same.

    Rhode Island General Assembly: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/ A full e-mail list of Rhode Island's Senators and Representatives is at the bottom of this post.

    PERMISSION GRANTED TO CROSS-POST

    Sen. Paiva-Weed:


    Dear Mrs. Paiva-Weed,

    I live on Malbone Road in Newport. There is a small group of concerned dog/pet owners, which includes a veterinarian, here in the state who are worried about having to vaccinate our pets with the rabies vaccine too often. Right now we are required by law to have our dogs and cats vaccinated every two years. In order to get a dog license in Newport, we must have proof of vaccination. Studies done by several veterinary research programs have proven that titers run even seven years after a rabies vaccine show antibodies in the dog's system. Vaccine companies state on their vials that the vaccine should be given every 1,095 days (3 years), which clearly goes against what the state of Rhode Island's law recommends. This not only forces owners to pay more out of pocket every two years, but it endangers the pet by over-vaccination. Our law is contrary to the recommendations of the National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians (NASPHV) and the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) and is counter to the inoculation instructions of the vaccine manufacturers. In fact, in its Compendium of Animal Rabies Prevention and Control, 2003, the AVMA and NASPHV committee state under Part I B (3): "There are no laboratory or epidemiologic data to support the annual or biennial administration of 3-year vaccines following the initial series." .

    In its Principles of Vaccination (2001), the AVMA concluded that:

    Unnecessary stimulation of the immune system does not result in enhanced disease resistance, and may increase the risk of adverse post-vaccination events.

    Having seen a close friend's older dog die within 2 weeks of rabies re-vaccination, which shut down her immune system, I don't want to put my own dog through that potential danger.

    We are hoping that you will help us get this law updated. Just this past month, Arkansas changed their protocol to three years, as did Wyoming late last year. At the present time, Massachusetts has a law that states "by intervals recommended by the manufacturer", and Connecticut law is for vaccination every three years, so we would be just updating our law to correspond with our neighboring states.

    Can we count on your help? Or can you recommend what we can do to rectify this situation?

    Thank you for your consideration,

    Respectfully,

    Jani Wolstenholme


    E-mails of all members of Rhode Island General Assembly

    sen-goodwin@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-pichardo@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-perry@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-ruggerio@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-jabour@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-metts@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-ciccone@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-doyle@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-pinga@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-felag@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-levesque@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-dipalma@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-paivaweed@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-daponte@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-mcburney@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-crowley@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-eoneill@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-devall@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-connors@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-picard@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-blais@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-tassoni@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-fogarty@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-cote@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-maselli@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-lanzi@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-gallo@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-miller@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-mccaffrey@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-walaska@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-lynch@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-bates@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-raptakis@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-maher@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-lenihan@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-sheehan@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-sosnowski@rilin.state.ri.us; sen-algiere@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-ajello@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-almeida@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-azzinaro@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-baldellihunt@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-brien@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-caprio@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-carnevale@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-carter@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-ecoderre@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-corvese@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-costantino@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-dasilva@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-dennigan@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-desimone@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-diaz@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-driver@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-edwards@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-ehrhardt@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-fellela@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-ferri@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-fierro@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-flaherty@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-fox@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-gablinske@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-gallison@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-gemma@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-giannini@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-guthrie@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-handy@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-hearn@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-jackson@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-jacquard@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-kennedy@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-kilmartin@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-lally@rilin.state.ri.us; ; rep-lima@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-loughlin@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-macbeth@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-malik@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-marcello@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-martin@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-mattiello@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-mccauley@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-mcnamara@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-melo@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-menard@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-murphy@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-naughton@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-newberry@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-oneill@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-pacheco@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-palumbo@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-petrarca@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-pollard@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-mrice@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-rice@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-ruggiero@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-sanbento@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-savage@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-schadone@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-segal@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-serpa@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-shallcrosssmith@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-silva@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-slater@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-smith@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-story@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-sullivan@rilin.state.ri.us; reptrillo@aol.com; rep-ucci@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-vaudreuil@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-walsh@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-wasylyk@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-watson@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-williams@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-williamson@rilin.state.ri.us; rep-winfield@rilin.state.ri.us
    Kris L. Christine
    Founder, Co-Trustee
    THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
    www.RabiesChallengeFund.org

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