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Thread: E-Collar Experts: Which Technique is Best?

  1. #1
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    Default E-Collar Experts: Which Technique is Best?

    E-Collar Experts,

    I've come across at least 3 different basic e-collar techniques used by well-known retriever trainers and I'd like to know your opinions on which is best.

    I'll try to summarize them as I understand them below:

    (1) The Original Dobbs/Tritronics Method: Apply low, continuous stimulation. Give command. Cease stimulation once command is executed. I think it is a version of "Escape Training". Vocalization should not occur.

    (2) The Pat Nolan/Dogtra Method: Give command, apply repeated "taps" of low level stimulation until command is executed. I believe this method would be categorized as "Avoidance Training".

    (3) The Mike Lardy Method: Give command, apply medium to high stimulation once as a "nick" using a continuous stimulation button (not the momentary button). Vocalization is acceptable. I think it is another version of "Avoidance Training".

    Which do you believe is the most effective method? The most humane method?

    Feel free to correct me, if I'm misrepresented any of the above methods. Also, let me know if I've missed a method.

    Thanks in advance for your insights,
    John

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    Senior Member BIG DOG's Avatar
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    you got 1 right for sure imho

    i don't know what methodolgy i use is under, i start ut by applying a low 1 and work my way up till i get a response, then either use 1 level up or 1 level down depending on how sever a correction is needed, cc to the ob commands from there

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    I use the Lardy method but not as you describe it, I use it how Lardy describes it. Any method would work if it is applied systematically. Many people using the same system get different results, not the systems fault.

    Good Luck!

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    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    Forget the Dobbs method, use the lardy approach as he described it.
    Bob Gutermuth
    Canvasback Chesapeakes
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    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    The problem with saying "which" program is that each of these trainers has continued to change and evolve over time. I know for a fact that both Dobbs and Lardy have changed many things since they released their material. If you really want to learn how to train a dog, spend real live time with a dog trainer.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
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    Senior Member Brad B's Avatar
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    I could be wrong but I think it's all just different stages of training involving the collar.

    I.E.- when CC to 'sit' I would apply continuous stim until the dog's butt is on the ground. The dog gradually learns to sit faster and avoid the stim completely. Then once we are in the field, we progress to where if the dog is slow on a 'sit' command, we apply a nick to get him to comply faster and as a reminder. Or if the dog blows thru a sit whistle completely I would revert to a burn until he complies which returns to what he learned in the yard during CC.

    The only difference I see in the Lardy example and the Nolan example is the level of stim. I think they are both extensions of the method used by Dobbs in the teaching phase. Seems to me they all work hand in hand.

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    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    I personally wouldn't use the Dobbs method, which I think is also the Dogtra system. But I've known folks that have trained some good dawgs with it.

    The personality of the trainer enters into the choice, FWIW. I see the Dobbs method as analogous with the Mother that is giving her child 'love taps' as corrections. And while a 'love tap' for spilling milk may be worthwhile, it won't make an indelible impression...which is needed when the child reaches up on the stove and almost gets scalded by tipping the pot of boiling water.

    Same is true for training offenses. When the dawg knows you know it knows, and still does wrong, tough love enters the picture. That's when an indelible correction needs to be applied, so the nagging ends.

    It's my firm belief that the pack mentality of our dogs will continue keeping them checking the limitations, and if you wish to remain Alpha in that animals life, you'd better be up to reading when the boundries are being challenged, and react properly. I don't think that happens with a 'nagging' form of collar usage.

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

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    i was wondering if Lardy was going to put out a newer DVD soon because the one everyone is selling (and putting up online) is getting outdated. I think that was filmed in 2000? And I too have heard his methods and gear have slightly changed. It would be interesting to see what he's modified in his program.

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    Senior Member Jeffrey Towler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    i was wondering if Lardy was going to put out a newer DVD soon because the one everyone is selling (and putting up online) is getting outdated. I think that was filmed in 2000? And I too have heard his methods and gear have slightly changed. It would be interesting to see what he's modified in his program.
    I have been using Lardy volume 1. If his methods have changed, I would like to know also. I wonder now if I should continu with flow chart from volume 1.

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    Senior Member Juli H's Avatar
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    Evan Graham uses the 'pyramid' technique...starting w/low and going higher, then back down again...

    I think the ways in which the collar is used will continue to change, and will also depend on the dog...

    Juli
    God answers prayers all the time. Even the ones we don't know we asked. God is Good (always)

    "There are only two ways to live your life.
    One is as though nothing is a miracle.
    The other is as though everything is a miracle."

    - Albert Einstein

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