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Thread: Heeling stick?

  1. #1
    Member mcduck's Avatar
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    Default Heeling stick?

    I am needing a little feedback on the heeling stick. I am using Smartworks and have CC'd to here about two to three weeks ago and my dog is doing great. He is 5 1/2 months old. I started using the stick for sit last night and I am having trouble with it as far as the dog avoiding heel. I started off by heeling him for maybe 200-300 feet before lightly sticking him at sit, then about another 100 feet before the next and so on, gradually increasing the pressure. I got to the third or forth time and he will spin behind me when I say sit. I have tried not sticking him as much and backed off the pressure of the sitck. Also he is on a pinch collar and lead but just cant seem to get him out of spinning. can I use the E-collar instead of stick or is this just normal?
    "From My Cold Dead Hands"

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcduck View Post
    I am needing a little feedback on the heeling stick. I am using Smartworks and have CC'd to here about two to three weeks ago and my dog is doing great. He is 5 1/2 months old. I started using the stick for sit last night and I am having trouble with it as far as the dog avoiding heel. I started off by heeling him for maybe 200-300 feet before lightly sticking him at sit, then about another 100 feet before the next and so on, gradually increasing the pressure. I got to the third or forth time and he will spin behind me when I say sit. I have tried not sticking him as much and backed off the pressure of the sitck. Also he is on a pinch collar and lead but just cant seem to get him out of spinning. can I use the E-collar instead of stick or is this just normal?
    I would not introduce the e-collar at this point in time. If your dog is over reacting to the stick at this point you may want to back out of it for a few weeks and allow this pup to mature a bit more. It may just be too early for her.

    Feel free to contact me directly if you have quesitons on this.

    Evan
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  3. #3
    Member mcduck's Avatar
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    I have already E-collar to here and no big freak out. I followed the book and dvd and worked great. So I will just step back and give a little more time. Thanks for the help.
    Last edited by mcduck; 06-03-2008 at 10:17 AM.
    "From My Cold Dead Hands"

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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    are you doing a huge arcing swat like a lumberjack felling a tree?
    or a covert, behind the back with the off side hand swat?
    the off hand behind the back covert swat is great if they are lurking in back
    the long arcing swat will be heard and avoided like a Sith avoiding a light saber
    you need the short powerful swat like the two inch punch Pai Mei taught Beatrix Kiddo.
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    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    Using a heeling stick is best done if you take the time to condition a pup to it. For several days, set the pup on a front sit and just rub and "pet" the dog with it. Eventually, move on to light taps "here and there".

    Over a period of time corrections are now more easily applied. As was mentioned, the heeling stick is more effective when "applied" from a position not easily seen.

    Prior conditioning prevents the pup from "freaking out" from a new "out of the blue" tool. The fear has been replaced by respect and awarenes making it more likely the pup will respond properly to the pressure.
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 06-03-2008 at 11:53 AM.
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    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    Does anyone think that a heeling stick used over many years might cause back problems later on?
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cakaiser View Post
    Does anyone think that a heeling stick used over many years might cause back problems later on?
    Not if it's used appropriately. But then that applies to all aversives, doesn't it?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Not if it's used appropriately. But then that applies to all aversives, doesn't it?

    Evan
    .A collar doesn't do physical damage,( that we know of ),I think a heeling stick can. Having seen many top trainers using a heeling stick with a lot of energy has caused me to question this technique. My dogs will no longer have a heeling stick used on their backs. Just saying, people should think about it.
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

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    Member mcduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    are you doing a huge arcing swat like a lumberjack felling a tree?
    or a covert, behind the back with the off side hand swat?
    the off hand behind the back covert swat is great if they are lurking in back
    the long arcing swat will be heard and avoided like a Sith avoiding a light saber
    you need the short powerful swat like the two inch punch Pai Mei taught Beatrix Kiddo.
    I do try to do the covert swat, he did fine at first with light taps or just touches with the stick. I did let him play with it for a while maybe a month I would play with him let him carry it around and so forth. I was just wondering if I can use the collar instead of the stick
    "From My Cold Dead Hands"

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    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    You say he spins behind you when you say sit, can you describe further? Is it an actual spin, or is he just avoiding the stick? Any type of spinning should raise a red flag

    We owned a dog that would spin naturally, just part of her happy behavior, Andy( Attar) and Paul were quite concerned by this.We were told to discourage it, even though it was not, at the time, a pressure response.

    This same dog is really stick shy, sticking her is unproductive, nicking works better.
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

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