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Thread: EIC Treatment?

  1. #1
    lurp
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    Question EIC Treatment?

    I received my results back from the University of Minnesota and my male came back with two copies of the EIC mutation. For those of you that have dogs with EIC, what has been the most effective treatment for preventing episodes of EIC? Carnitine, 7-KETO, Phenobarbital, neutering, etc.?

    My lab has only experienced episodes of EIC during the summer months. He can hunt back-to-back days (waterfowl and upland) without any signs or symptoms of EIC.

    I also want to say a big thank you to Katie Minor at the University of Minnesota.

    Thanks in advance for your comments.

  2. #2
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurp View Post
    . For those of you that have dogs with EIC, what has been the most effective treatment for preventing episodes of EIC? Carnitine, 7-KETO, Phenobarbital, neutering, etc.
    .
    I have recommended all of these things to various clients with EIC dogs and I do not think any of them are effective in "preventing episodes". The best way to prevent episodes is to know your dog and his tolerance for work and to be able to recognize the early signs of an impending episode.

    Be prepared to quit working him when you feel that he has reached his tolerance, do not wait until he has symptoms.
    Last edited by EdA; 06-15-2008 at 03:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Member Jayne's Avatar
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    I was told by Dr. Susan Taylor and the U of M to quit running the dog or even trying to hunt him or more than likely I would end up killing him from an episode of EIC. He has since passed away (not from EIC) but we did quit trialing him once we found out he had EIC. I know several people who have lost dogs to EIC because they continue to work or hunt them. Please be very careful. I also was told the cocktails would not work to help prevent the episodes.

  4. #4
    Member obxdog's Avatar
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    I have a BLF with EIC. I have her on a cocktail of B-12, carnatine and co-q10. I will agree it doesn't prevent collapses, but I find it does make her able to train longer before showing any symptoms. I also keep a kiddy pool filled, if possible, when training. She will jump in it from time to time while we are training, this also seems to help. If you wonder why I don't just keep her as a pet and stop training or hunting her, its because this dog has so much desire and drive it would break her heart , and mine,if I left her behind when I loaded the dogs up to go train, or never took her hunting. EdA said it best "know your dog and its tolerance for work".
    "The average dog is a nicer person than the average person" Andy Rooney
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    Member Jayne's Avatar
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    My dog also had great desire and was talented. We did not trial him once we found out he had EIC. Like you I could not leave him behind when we trained our other dogs. We always gave him one or two marks but made sure he would not have to hunt for the bird. Cash could play with our other dogs and not have an episode. They came on when we were training for trials.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bud Bass's Avatar
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    We ended up giving our EIC dog to a good family who really seemed to want and love him. They fattened him up a bit which i understand helps prevent or limit episodes (possibly slowing him down a bit), but then they took him phesant hunting in SD where he did have a couple episodes. I think once the new owners actually saw it in real life, they stopped hunting him. He was the most tallented dog I ever had, full of energy, smart and a excellent marker. It really hurt to give him up. We are now searching for a stud dog to breed with in August and one major criteria is not EIC carrier, either clear on the tests that was given to limited dogs, or no EIC in his background as far as we can find out. Bud

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    Senior Member kiddcline's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about Cash. He's an impressive pup. Let me know what you are going to do and if you want to get together soon for training.

  8. #8
    Senior Member HiRollerlabs's Avatar
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    I agree with Dr. Ed--learn to recognize what triggers an EIC episode in YOUR dog. Each dog is very different--the term for how the mutation acts is called expressivity. Cystic fibrosis in humans is the same way--it expresses itself differently from one person to the next.

    Like the original poster, my old EIC female (tested with 2 mutations at u of m study) was able to run hunting tests, train, hunt pheasants and ducks without issue. However, she'd have an EIC episode over a houseful of little kids/company--she LOVED little kids and got so excited about them.

    There are dogs with 2 mutated genes running/training field trial and hunting tests, and there are dogs with 2 mutated genes that are in pet homes, and everything in between.
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    Senior Member Sundown49 aka Otey B's Avatar
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    I have a 7 YO male with EIC. I have tried about everything hoping that something would help him. I have learned to just watch him closely and have been able to run him in HT's and train him some too..As he has gotten older some of the "triggers" that set off an episode when he was younger no longer seems to affect him as bad. When he was young even if I had him in a kennel box where he could not see what ws happening he would have an episode. The reason I have not tried placing him in a pet home is he is so wound tight he would drive most people nutz and since I am already nutz I just keep him............. and watch him like a hawk. He is an outstanding duck dog nd that mkes him happy so it makes me happy too

    The dog I am talking about is NOT on my website. He is by Rudy X Bubba female.
    Last edited by Sundown49 aka Otey B; 06-19-2008 at 09:47 PM. Reason: clarification
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  10. #10
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    I just received the expected, but still dreaded letter from the University of Minnesota, on my nine month old pup.

    "Your dog has two copies of the likely EIC mutation and is therefore very likely to be susceptible to episodes of EIC. Your dog will pass a copy of this possible mutation on to all its offspring. Some dogs have died during an EIC episode so we recommend that you have your dog stop exercising at the first signs of any weakness or wobbliness, and that you have them avoid intense exercise such as hunting, field trials, or hunting training. Dogs with susceptibility to EIC can often perform mild to moderate exercise without collapsing."

    It was expected only because she suffered two collapses in two days last week. She never once collapsed in training -- where she's been for the last three months -- or while airing or playing with other dogs at the trainer's. Rather, she collapsed while playing "who can get the bumper first" with two of my other dogs. While the first collapse was mild, the second knocked her out completely for almost two hours before she could stand and ran up a fairly substantial bill for emergency care. The collapse happened after only seven minutes of play time.

    I will be bringing her home now but am a little nervous since all my dogs live in the house and her trigger appears to be playing with them. She is a beautiful, sweet, highly driven and incredibly talented dog. I am hoping that I will be able to give her or find her a home where she will be able to live long and well. For now, unfortunately, I am heartbroken.

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