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Thread: How to Correct Vocalization When Sent...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rob G's Avatar
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    Default How to Correct Vocalization When Sent...

    I have a dog that vocalizes when he is either released for a mark or sent on a blind. I have already dealt with his vocalization in the blind and at the line, but it seems he saves it now for when he is released (usually a bark). It also happens when he takes a cast (he takes the cast but usually barks once when given the cast).

    What is the best method of indirect pressure for this? Up until now, I've either called him back to the line, given him a sit/nick/sit then resend (which now results in bark everytime he's nicked - which then becomes an endless vicious cycle!), or I'll call him back and go pick up the mark. However the next trip to the line will always result in a bark upon release.

    I'm certain the bark is now associated with the anticipation of a nick. I've even tried letting the bark go uncorrected.

    Looking for a better alternative for correcting this.

    As I said, I've been successful keeping him quiet in the blind and at the line, it is only after the release or cast...

    Thanks,

    Rob

  2. #2
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I have a vocalizing 2.5 year old dog. I haven't been able to fix it.

    I can mostly keep her quiet (whines not barks) on the line and holding blind but there is ALWAYS an underlying vocalness about her; anywhere. I can keep it in check in the holding blind. On the way to the line I make sure we do some heeling movements, (figure 8's, stops and back ups, walking a zig zag, etc.) on the way to the line. I enforce a high standard for that. Any vocalizing will get a harsh correction on the way to the line. Usually a collar correction will make any tendency to vocalize worse so I think a stick correction is better.

    Unfortunately, on the line, I've got a little different standard. She's gotten so jumpy from so many corrections on the line that she has trouble sitting calmly looking out for gunners and watching the birds. I now allow low volume whineing without a correction at that time. If it's a little louder than low volume I'll give a verbal correction and take her off the line and come back right away and start over.

    A little over a year ago I tried to enforce a zero tollerance for noise of all kinds anywhere during the retrieving situation. I got an extremely jumpy, popper for my trouble. I backed off the zero tolerance policy to what I call the controlable policy I use now. I used to burn and or call back for noise on the send. Now I allow noise on the send.

    If this doesn't work for a long time answer, I'll have to get on her harder in the holding blind and on the line. There seems to be an indirect pressure type of connection to corrections and her being quiet. She tries harder after a correction, but that makes her jumpier on the line. If it progresses to far she'll become untrialable and I don't want that.

    It's not perfect but it's the compromise I've worked out with this dog.
    Last edited by Howard N; 10-07-2008 at 01:32 PM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rob G's Avatar
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    Howard,

    Thanks for you reply...sounds familiar

    I've gotten to the point with him that I'm ready to just give up on the barking after being sent as any and all corrections seem to make the problem worse...

    In SH and MH tests, what happens to a dog that is quiet until after being sent?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    In SH and MH tests, what happens to a dog that is quiet until after being sent?
    Mine is 5 for 5 in MH's.

    AFC at 2 and a half.

    As long as the noise isn't excessive US judges seem to ignore it and judge the dog on what it does out in the field.

    I hate it though. It seems like I spend half my training time with this dog on noise issues and not training to do well out in the field. I think it'll keep her from reaching her potential. I'm sure that her jumpiness on the line has already hurt her in all age work.

    I am hoping others will post what they've done and how well it's worked.
    Last edited by Howard N; 10-07-2008 at 02:09 PM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  5. #5
    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post

    It's not perfect but it's the compromise I've worked out with this dog.
    Good answer, Howard.

    It still goes back to that old thing, inhance one aspect of training, detract from another. Perfect balance is so difficult to obtain, even harder to maintain.

    Vocal issues are serious, dogs with this many times are never totally fixed. It becomes a matter of keeping it at acceptable levels, without creating too many other problems.( jumpy, bugging, lack of focus, popping, to name a few.)

    Rudy was vocal at 8 weeks. We would pick up bumper, make her be quiet before she got to go. Later, stick or just grabbing her and shaking her up worked somewhat. Kind of like, sober up, pay attention, get back in my world. Collar corrections not too effective, found more personal, you and me type thing worked better. Snap her out of that glassy eyed state.

    She would be fairly good as birds were shot, maybe a low whine. But we did live with the YAHOO when she was finally sent. If it was a really loud scream, we would recall her, little scream ok. Depending on the dog, you can shoot marks, have emergency blind planted if needed. If dog is way high, pull them off marks, run blind, then rethrow critical mark if needed. If this is done on consistent basis,, they don't anticipate the send so much. Doesn't need to be a big blind.

    No easy answers, just have to band aid it as best you can. Have known some that were washed because of this. I do think the barking probably is knowing a nick is coming, vicious circle, as you said.

    Don't know about HT, but FT some noise when sent usually not big deal. But singing when birds shot not too cool.
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

  6. #6
    Senior Member blakegober's Avatar
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    I have a friend who has a dog that whines when sent on marks. For a while he was calling back every time and holding her mouth shut and popping her on the side of the face slightly. That never worked to stop it so he eventually quit trying. No he just lets her do it as long as it is not too bad. She has placed 4th in a derby and jammed several times. I think it is ok as long as it is not too bad, the issue is it could keep getting worse.
    Blake E. Gober
    Ringgold, Ga
    North Georgia HRC
    HR Hudson B. Gober JH
    Blakegober@gmail.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    My dog has improved greatly by going back to some basic ob. We used to fight each other so hard just to get to the line at the same time, that both of us were overwrought and stressed when we got there. I don't think the barking at the line was anticipation of a collar correction, but a blatant "no I will not do what you say". At any rate after correcting the heeling and creeping problems, the noise stopped.

    Except!.........my dog gets vocal on blinds! As soon as I cue for a blind and try to change his body position, he starts making noise. Once again, its "Ok, ok, I got it, leave me alone and let me go". Now I just have to learn to apply the same standards to setting up for blinds as walking to line.

    Never a dull moment. Good luck with your dog!
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jim Pickering's Avatar
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    I have had to deal with only one vocal dog so would not suggest that I have an answer. Never a problem with the Goldens but my first lab was seriously vocal. Fortunately this one not only whined on line, let out the loud YAHOO when sent and continuous screamed going out on water marks, he also screamed when created, when waiting to be fed and any other time he wanted something or was not a happy camper. For this guy it was fairly easy to teach “quite” in and around the house. Once the pup understood the command “Quite” around the house it was easy to take the command to the field.

    As Charlotte says, there is the balance issue. The pup learned to be as quite as a church mouse in the house. However, rather than bark or whine to let me know he needed to go out, he would quietly pee on the floor.
    Jim Pickering

  9. #9
    Senior Member Paco's Avatar
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    Pinch collar has worked for some I know.My boy has the vocal thing at hunt tests,and it has gotten better,but only with age.That said,he is rarely if ever vocal in the real deal.So I don't really care that much about it.Testing is not the real deal.HUNTING IS.-------------paco
    Train for Total Confidence not Total Compliance
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    4xGMPR HRCH Sauble River "Gator"
    GMPR HRCH HRKs Liberators Outlaw "Rondo" SH
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  10. #10
    Member David Lambert's Avatar
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    Mine only does his whining on water marks, usually just the first. He will let out a grunt occasionally leaving the line on land marks, but not usually. But in the water its a different thing. He sounds kinda like a wood duck the way he squeals/whines. Most judges I have run under find it enjoyable/laughable. He was once dropped from a SH test because of it, but the guy handling him didnt make much of a fuss about it even though he did well on the test. I could never find a solution that made much sense to me on how to fix it, and truthfully I was not that concerned about it. He has never made a peep while marks were flying. Knowing him the way I do, its just his way of showing his displeasure that the water is slowing him down from getting his mark.

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