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Thread: Trial wise dog

  1. #1
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    Default Trial wise dog

    How does one adress the oroblem of a dog that trains well but is "self employed" at the trial/test ?
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

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    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    I address him as "Indy". I just happened to notice you run a dog of the same name! Must be a jinx. Good luck to you!
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

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    Senior Member Brevard Arndt's Avatar
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    I don't know.

    But I feel your pain, for every ribbon he earned, he forfited about 5 entry fees.

    Trained like "Wonder Dog", but wanted me to just stay in the gallery and let him "handle it"at the event.

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    Senior Member Goldenboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    How does one adress the oroblem of a dog that trains well but is "self employed" at the trial/test ?

    John,

    What have you been doing to address this in training? Does it occur on marks and/or blinds?

    While maintaining very, very high standards, disciplined casting, point drills casting at ninety degree angles into the water, and pattern blinds where you handle off the blind being sent for to a different blind, even changing the destination multple times, can help to establish/re-establish control in a dog with "free agent" tendencies.
    Mark

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    Senior Member Illinois Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
    I address him as "Indy".
    That's funny.

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    How does one adress the oroblem of a dog that trains well but is "self employed" at the trial/test ?
    without knowing the specifics of exactly what he is doing i am going to guess that he has you "patterned" no pun intended. not sure of your routine, but to use a golf metaphor there is something in your pre shot routine that you are doing in practice that you are not doing on the first tee....

    some guys/gals train,train, train, and then when they test, the dog gets a little confused because a test scenario doesnt have the confidence boosters that a training set up has...conversely I have been around people who test, test, test, and dont teach their dog much except to fail because they havent taught the dog the concept that the test asks them to execute...

    IMHO the middle ground behind the two is where you want to be
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    At the trial, it's line manners issues at first, but we usually get through them and he normally does well on the land marks. In the second series the poor line manners some times translate into a poor initial line, but again it is not usually so bad that the blind can not be salvaged. As the trial goes the behavior problems escalate..................

    This is from a talented dog that can "DO" the work and is the epitome of virtue when he is in a training situation where this type of action will result in the appropriate consequence .

    As of yet I have been unable to get this type of defiant behavior in training.

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  8. #8

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    Is he collar wise? Do you train with out it?

    How about a large club training day with a trial like atmosphere?

  9. #9
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    you just identified the problem yourself..time to school your dog like the horse trainers do. Set up a holding blind just like they do at a trial. now take your dog out of the kennel just like you do at the trial/test, wear your white coat,gloves, whatever you do at the trial. go through the same progressions whether it be airing him out and proceed to the holding blind.

    Now walk to the line and do not accept any poor line manners...zero tolerance

    do not send him, instead put him back up,and repeat the drill a few minutes later, again do not send (reward) him with a retrieve for poor line manners.
    if he shows you perfect line manners give him an easy bird.

    one other theory (which may spark the ire of some) is that when you remove the e collar (assuming he is an e collar dog) is that he knows when you remove the collar that it is a different scenario from training

    like I stated before these are just my opinions and I have had a similar type of problem with my first dog...trained like an all age dog, ran a trial like a washout...
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member RJG's Avatar
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    Gosh, John, are you sure you're not handling my dog! This is familiar territory for me.

    I have a 5 year old who is very talented and can do the work but becomes an “Indy” during a test. (Actually, she tries to be an "Indy" during training, too.) I finally got a second Master pass on her after 2 years and many HT's!

    Some of the things I’ve learned from smarter folks than I.

    Don’t enter your dog in too many tests.

    When you train, follow the EXACT same routine that you do during a test – from airing to exiting the crate, to walking to the blind, holding blinds – everything. You don’t have control over the crowds or excitement or number of other dogs at a HT – but do everything that you DO have control over.

    Don’t rely on the collar too much if you think your dog is collar-wise. You can make it "up close and personal". We took the collar off my dog when doing marks and honoring (she’s a breaker) and I use the heeling stick or else take her down if she misbehaves. (and I’m middle-aged) Someone once told me that that’s why dogs have ears – not just for force fetch. By doing that, she seems to know that having the collar off does not mean she’s not going to get corrected when she makes the “wrong” choice.

    In training, don’t accept anything but your dog making the right choices. If he chooses not to have good line manners walking out of the blind then drag him back and do it again and again until you get the behavior you want. I guess that’s attrition – where you just wear them down till they do the right thing.

    Of course, they are living beings so nothing is perfect all the time, but I have seen an improvement in my “Indy” that I hope will enable her to get her MH before she retires!

    Good luck!
    Randall

    HRCH Truline's Cleopatra MH (Cleo)

    Prime Time Rising Star MH ***(Emmy)
    Wyco's Lena-Linda con Besos SH (Lena)
    HRCH Surry's Smoking Gun SH (Sage) RIP

    Licking Run's Blackberry Jam MH (Berry) RIP

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