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Thread: Challenging the Blind 2

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Default Challenging the Blind 2

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

    Ok, here is Challenging the Blind #2. Blind diagram follows. There are 4 blinds. Wind indicated for each blind. "Ideal" line to the blind indicated. This is the Open.

    Go from right to left (generally)

    1. Blue. Run bird boy blind first. Then run long blind. Wind hard. Test dog took many whistles to hold the wind.
    2. Red. Water blind. Assume water to the right of the line past the point, but no visibility to the right. Visibility to the left. Test dog pushed hard right to dirt.
    3. Yellow. Water Blind. Assume water to the left of the line past the point, but no visibility to the left. Visibility to right. Test dog pushed hard left to dirt

    For each blind

    a) Identify the markers that the judge will have in his/her book
    b) Identify what you believe will result in a call back to the water marks
    - Assume that your work to this point is spectacular
    - Assume that your work is middle of the pack
    - Assume that your work is mediocre

    How does your positioning impact your approach to the blind? Or does it?




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  2. #2
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    ChallengingtheBlind7a.jpg

    BB blind, appears straightforward and used more as a setup for the longer blind.

    Longer blind, my dog would be thinking water initially, plus suction from the BB blind, going downwind past it. Or, mine might tend to flare the BB area, which would make the wind even more of a factor. Keeping dog right of the water initially, but not too far right, would be my challenge. . Not sure if my factor #4 would be in play, with dog possibly seeking the water back there and going out of sight, or if the wind would push her enough right. Strong wind would result in dog overcasting to the right and making it hard to keep the angle across the green thoroughfare, dog would want to run right down that to the trees, especially with the wind pushing that way. I would try to keep my dog right of 1, 2 and 4 and not get right of 3 & 5 as my corridor to the blind. I would not want to try a big hail mary upwind cast if they got too far right at the end. I think if my dog got a little wet at #2, might still be okay, depending on overall blind and previous work. But I think if dog was still in water at the point, would not make it back, and if I was right of 3 and 5 for appreciable time, would not come back either.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    ChallengingtheBlind2.jpg

    Would not want to see squared entry at #1 and dog taking really fat line all the way down particularly, or cheat to right of #2. For sure would lose sight of dog if they cut the point at #3. With wind pushing to right and losing sight there, would try to set dog up to just hit the point, with a hard left cast off the point, but would rather take it a bit fatter than hitting it too square. Left of #4, I don’t think is challenging this blind, but I would play it safe as I could to keep sight of my dog. If my dog got behind the point, could still recover if she appeared not too far right of #5, but with the wind and lack of visibility, she might be pretty far along with a head of steam before I saw her again and would have to cast her into the wind hard to get back online. So I would play it safe.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 11-22-2012 at 09:56 AM.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    ChallengingtheBlind3.jpg

    Keyhole, close enough to mat, would attempt to get dog through it reasonably, between #1 and #2. I don’t think absolute failure if dog misses it and still gets in water reasonably online to the first left point, so I might not hack a dog through it, but would give it our best shot. Would expect dog in water by #4. Would like to hit point right of 3 and give right cast off, keeping dog to right of 5, again, skimming point, casting off hard right if dog gets up there, do not want to lose dog behind point. I would play it safe as I could to keep dog from getting behind point but not much further right than 6. I think 5 is the key to this blind, real danger letting them get left and lost, I wouldn’t play hero. I wouldn’t want my dog doing a channel blind all the way down, getting out at 6 and having avoided the points entirely, especially the first one, but it is within a reasonable corridor to do so, I just think other dogs will hit some point and cast off, challenging the line more and showing control and teamwork with their handler.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  5. #5
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    The yellow blind appears that the dog would go sight unseen for at least 75 yards after the dog disappears over the top of the mound and even the last point the dog must be cast of to the right of the line to be visable until beached ?
    The outside blue blind appears that the dog will be mostly out of site after you clip the left corner of the mound ?


    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  6. #6
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    I took those to be mowed strips, that's what they look like on my screen. If they are mounds, I'm sure Ted will clarify visiblity issues.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  7. #7
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    I took those to be mowed strips, that's what they look like on my screen. If they are mounds, I'm sure Ted will clarify visiblity issues
    Now that you mention it Kim,,,,I can see it. On my screen the are darkened green and appear rounded on the edges.

    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  8. #8
    Senior Member John Montenieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

    Ok, here is Challenging the Blind #2. Blind diagram follows. There are 4 blinds. Wind indicated for each blind. "Ideal" line to the blind indicated. This is the Open.

    Go from right to left (generally)

    1. Blue. Run bird boy blind first. Then run long blind. Wind hard. Test dog took many whistles to hold the wind.
    2. Red. Water blind. Assume water to the right of the line past the point, but no visibility to the right. Visibility to the left. Test dog pushed hard right to dirt.
    3. Yellow. Water Blind. Assume water to the left of the line past the point, but no visibility to the left. Visibility to right. Test dog pushed hard left to dirt

    For each blind

    a) Identify the markers that the judge will have in his/her book
    b) Identify what you believe will result in a call back to the water marks
    - Assume that your work to this point is spectacular
    - Assume that your work is middle of the pack
    - Assume that your work is mediocre

    How does your positioning impact your approach to the blind? Or does it?





    1-BB blind. Agree with Rainmaker, straight forward. Moving hard left toward water or hard right to open field would complicate the long right hand blind.
    ----Markers: small cove right of the drawn tree to the left, left edge of distant mound on the right. For the BB blind, anything within this corridor comes back (assuming dog takes all casts).
    ----Regardless of my standing in the field, I'm aggressively challenging this blind as it the "easiest" of the 4. I would keep the dog to the left until the end, probably line the dog slightly to the left so I have some room to work with. I say that knowing that nothing is easy, but this has the least amount of challenges relative to the other blinds.

    2- Long Land blind (Blue #3): Test dog has given us a reasonable expectation of what to see (i.e. fading with a strong wind to the right).
    ----Markers: Shoreline to the left (1st cove), middle of the mound in the distance (shrub at base in line?). If a dog fades badly with the wind and ends up right of the mound, very difficult to recover with casts into the wind (Not to mention if they go behind the mound). Any dog that breaks towards and gets into the water better get out relatively soon or casting with the wind could result in a cast carried way to the right and again tough to recover. Anyone making a reasonable effort within the corridor should come back. All work is relative, assuming all dogs take the casts (in a perfect world).
    ----I would again line slightly left and try to stay left of the line to be in a position to make a right cast, towards the end of the blind which would put you downwind position. I think regardless of my position in the field, I'd still play it this way and try to survive.

    3- 1st Water blind (Red #2)
    ----Markers: Drawn tree to the left, Left edge of the mound(#3) on the right. (Shoreline contour, short features, far mounds as reference points) Dogs will need to be on both points, any dog missing either point would be dropped. They really shouldn't be in the water until after the 2nd point. Too far right after the 2nd point is a danger zone. Any dog that hits both points, does a reasonably good job and doesn't get lost at the end will come back. Any dog that fades to far right early, doesn't get into the water after the 1st point or drifts right and out of sight after the 2nd point (assuming the dog fades right and goes to the right mound) will not likely be back.
    ----Assuming my dog would take all my casts, ha ha, I would want to be right on line or a little right so that when I hit the second point I could put the dog on the left side of the corridor. (again regardless of my position in the field, just knowing my dog, SURVIVE).

    Blind #4 (Yellow)
    ----Markers: Left - Small tree left of the short haybale (deep and at the base of the 2nd point), Right -- Right Edge of the far mound (below the X). Short "Keyhole" up front (Shoreline contour, short features, far mounds as reference points). Dogs should attempt the keyhole, but not be severely penalized if they tried and couldn't get it. Any dog getting out left and not getting back in would be dropped. Any dog missing the second point would be severely hurt, more than likely dropped based on relative work.
    ----I would make a good faith effort to put the dog in the "Keyhole" but I wouldn't want to hack up the blind up front if I couldn't get it. I would take my chances unless I felt it necessary to make up ground. I would also make darn sure to get my dog on the 2nd point, 4 high and dry because from this vantage point it seems the true line in out of the water. Too far left after the second point would be dangerous and if I could get the dog off the 2nd point and to the right of the corridor, I'd err on that side until the end.

    IMHO --
    An armed man is a citizen
    An unarmed man is a subject

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The yellow blind appears that the dog would go sight unseen for at least 75 yards after the dog disappears over the top of the mound and even the last point the dog must be cast of to the right of the line to be visable until beached ?
    The outside blue blind appears that the dog will be mostly out of site after you clip the left corner of the mound ?


    Pete
    Pete

    Why don't you find a photo, take the time to draw lines with Microsoft paint, put markers on it and post it. Then I will spend some time critiquing your diagrams. Man, what a bunch of brain damage.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
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  10. #10
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    Amazes me how such rude comments commend praise by so many. Ted obviously doesn't want to hear any opinion which doesn't sound like a song bird singing from a tree about what he thinks is right. Not to mention having a two page list of instructions in a blind would just be the absolute death of the sport in my opinion.

    Is the turkey burnt or what?

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