RTF Income Distribution Poll GDG....

[JS]

Jim, I don't see any mention of social programs.
If I'm to believe the information you posted, I would conclude that wars have had a much greater impact on my tax burden than "handouts".
Could that be true??

JS

[Mike Noel]

Taxes have always been a process of redistributing wealth and every income group thinks they are the ones paying more than their fair share.

It seems that even the folks that pay ZERO in taxes think they pay too much.....its obvious that BHO feels that way.

I could swallow a tax increase if every dollar went toward paying down the national debt....instead it is going to put in someone else's pocket. In the long run (which this country and its citizens dont seem to care about....its all about getting everything right NOW) this entire country would benefit from getting the deficit under control and our national debt to manageable levels.

Those $600 checks did little to pump up the economy and any effect they had was temporary. BHO's $1000 gifts will result in much the same, zero long term benefit to the economy.

You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer - Winston Churchill

[Buzz]

The poll kind of verifies what I thought. Dog games are expensive, and those that participate are likely to earn on average much more than the median US family income.

I came across this interesting graphic from the Heritage Foundation on spending. I throw it out there without comment.

[YardleyLabs]

Interesting. I was looking at their other charts and one is left with the conclusion that when Democrats are in the white house spending goes up less and the budget is consistently closer to being balanced than when Republicans are in the white house. An interesting perspective on fiscal conservatism.

Average Federal Deficit as a Percentage of GDP, by Administration (Source: The Heritage Foundation)






I assume this is simply the result of Democrats benefiting from the brilliant decisions by the Republicans that came before them and then leaving a mess behind for the next Republican to clean up.

[Hoosier]

I wonder what the results would have been if the participants would have been show people. I would think the income levels would be similar. I would also think the politics would be way left of most on this forum. Our sport is based in hunting and gun rights.Thats just my opinion though. On a side note I got rear ended driving this morning. When we got out of the car to look at the damage the guy that hit me asked if I wanted to report it. I told him yes my bumper was about to fall off and there was probably about $4000 in damage. With out knowing me at all the guy says " Yah, but you can afford that I can't". That is the mentality we need to get away from as a nation.
Just my thoughts.

Tremayne

[Hew]

Taxes have always been a process of redistributing wealth and every income group thinks they are the ones paying more than their fair share.

Nearly 50% of the country pays zero in Federal taxes. And a goodly portion of those that don't pay a dime in taxes actually receive a refund for money they never paid in the first place. Those folks represent a sizable portion of the Obama contituency. Today they will be voting to take even more of somebody else's money and line their own pockets with it. Again, you don't have to make over $250k to be disgusted by that.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship."

Alexander Fraser Tyler, "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic"

[Uncle Bill]

Thanks, Hew....That quote is worth repeating MANY times...for we are just now entering the proof of that prognostication. The Obama era will rule for 8 years, and by then we won't be able to recover from socialism. No wonder the Mayan calender ended in 2012. Glorioski! It will be fun.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship."

Alexander Fraser Tyler, "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic"

I was sent this little reminder today. Wonder if it will resonate?


> Once upon a time, there was a charismatic and eloquent
> leader who decided
> his nation needed a change and he was the one to implement
> it. The people
> were receptive and ready for a change. He spoke
> passionately when denouncing
> the existing system and the press loved him.
>
> Nobody questioned what he believed in or who his friends
> were. He would help
> the poor and bring free medical care and education to all.
> He would bring
> justice and equality. He said, ŒI am for hope and change,
> and will bring you
> both.¹
>
> Nobody bothered to ask about the change, so by the time the
> executioner¹s
> guns went silent, all guns had been confiscated. When
> everyone was finally
> equal, they were equally poor, hungry, and miserable. Their
> free education
> was worthless. When the change was fully implemented, the
> country had been
> reduced to Third World status. More than a million people
> fled in small
> boats and rafts.
>
> The charismatic young leader was Fidel Castro; the nation,
> Cuba.




And like the chickens that would vote for 'Kernel' Sanders, I'm betting that august crowd of Cubans are voting for Obama...getting their lead from all the Jews in America. The break-out of the various ethnic groups, and how they voted will be the most interesting part of this election.

Hope they do a break-out of the vote by income. If nothing else, it will confirm Tyler's prediction. The "something-for-nothing" crowd will be in command, and will stay there until the nation is once again in civil war. And it won't be the 'haves' at war with the 'have-nots', because there won't be any haves hanging around. They will have left.

Atlas will shrug!

UB

[paul young]

i must be locked in a basement somewhere; i'm almost 56 years old and have never met anyone who didn't pay taxes. nearly 50%, you say? are you counting people too young or old to work? if so, that might explain it, but i would have to call it misleading, as well.

my first job was summer work on a tobacco farm at age 13. i made $1.05/hr. i filed that year and had it mostly refunded, but i still paid taxes.-Paul

[K G]

The national debt and annual budget deficits are going to bring pain to all Americans.....no way around it

Bruce

That's true enough, Bruce.....but WHO is going to suffer that pain the most will be DIRECTLY determined by the outcome of today's election, as will who benefits the most by contributing the least.

You don't SPEND your way to SAVINGS regards,

kg

[Marvin S]

Jim - as usual, your post is excellent, but I believe you to have done a little selecting in what you presented. So I am taking the liberty of adding to your information, on selected areas.

That is, when this country chose to fight a war, the citizens at the time paid for the war. They did not defer that cost to their children and grandchildren. Note that our economy and our country faired fairly well for the next 40 years.

The first time I heard "Guns & Butter" it was associated with the policies of LBJ.

Fast forward to the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, the Reagan tax cuts, which enjoyed strong bi-partisan support in the Congress and represented a fundamental shift in the course of federal income tax policy. it featured a 25 percent reduction in individual tax brackets, phased in over 3 years, and indexed for inflation thereafter. This brought the top tax bracket down to 50 percent. However, as a result the Reagan administration incurred massive budget deficits to the tune of doubling the National Debt from the cumulative amount incurred by the first 39 presidents of $1.8 Trillion to $4 Trillion.

The Reagan administration continued to push for still lower taxes which resulted in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which brought the top statutory tax rate down from 50 percent to 28 percent while the corporate tax rate was reduced from 50 percent to 35 percent. The number of tax brackets was reduced and the personal exemption and standard deduction amounts were increased and indexed for inflation, thereby relieving millions of taxpayers of any Federal income tax burden. However, the Act also created new personal and corporate Alternative Minimum Taxes.

Reagan was a "B" rated actor & registered D until he got on the AUH2O bandwagon & recognized the momentum. He had a lot of D instincts & forgot that he owned the veto pen on many unnecessary spending bills.

HW Bush, after the “Read my lips. No new taxes.” statement during the campaign, tried to get back to the republican platform of being fiscally conservative and was voted out of office. However, even with the additional tax revenue his administration managed to ad another $2Trillion to the national debt in just four years.

Bush 41 reneged on a campaign pledge during his 1st term & was poorly supported in his campaign for a 2nd term.

Enter George Bush and his Economic Growth and Tax Relief and Reconciliation Act of 2001. Though the rate reductions were phased in over several years, ultimately the top tax rate was to drop from 39.6 percent to 33 percent. Note that is top rate, not the lowest rate or the middle rates. Mr. Bush was able to con the citizens of this country in to prosecuting a war to satisfy his personal agenda and at the same time con you into believing that cutting taxes for the top 5% of tax payers was somehow beneficial to all citizens. The result is that the Bush administration has redoubled the national debt which now stands at $10.8Trillion. That is bought your vote with money borrowed from your children and grandchildren.

Bush 43 has been a fiscal disaster as was his father, though both are people of fine character. They have an elitist's view of the conduct of the presidency, & the nation has suffered due to their unwillingness to engage their critics who have had a free run. Again, Bush 43 forgot he had a veto pen.

Now, in response to your post & Buzz who posted the chart. Democrats are known for starving the military of needed investment to continue their mission. Military infrastructure is not inexpensive, but is a necessary expenditure of tax money. That helps the D's spending record, which is generally spent on Non Value added items..

The issue I have is Bush 41 held Highway money in the fund in order to present a balanced budget when there were glaring needs on the infrastructure side. That is an example of very shortsightedness. Look at our transportation infrastructure today, pathetic.

In closing, I don't see McCain heading us down a path to destruction, though like others I would like to see none of our debt in another country & our dependence on countries that don't like us reduced. I do see major long term ramifications if the "Redistributor" ends up prevailing, & those will affect our grandchildren more than owing a little bit of money, which we can dig ourselves out from under. One must realize that when issues become ingrained in society's fabric they are difficult to remove, like a bad stain.