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Thread: General Douglas MacArthur this election day GDG

  1. #31
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoney View Post
    ted
    you are correct on all but one point
    the best tank in WW2 was undoubtedly the king tiger. Michael Whitman killed 27 shermans in one day alone during the normandy campaign.however the King Tiger was never produced in large enough numbers to make a difference and you are absolutely right the T34 was the best mass produced tank of WW2
    Depends on what you consider to be best

    King Tiger limited because of:
    - Fuel economy
    - Weight
    - Track size
    - Reliability issues

    Not mobile, limited to highways, and as you mentioned, never produced in sufficient numbers to make a difference
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonbonjovi View Post
    My dad was a US Army captain in the Philipines and General MacArthur was very well loved there, he was my dad's hero. We used to go to Fort MacArthur when it was in existence in San Pedro Ca. on a regular basis, just so my dad could pay tribute to the General's statue..you dont even want to know how many times my dad played the movie with Gregory Peck over and over again. we even had a full military funeral at his request at Fort Sam Houston, complete with gun salute and trumpeter playing taps...very moving.
    And there you have the difference between a REAL soldier and a bunch of arm chair want to be warriors. Your father sounded like a great man bonjovi. Thanks for the story


    There is nothing funnier than average men critiquing great men.

    If I remember right I think we whipped the Nazi’s and Japanese’s asses back during WWII and we should have jerked a knot in Stalin’s butt while we were over there. Never underestimate the desire of an American soldier to win…NEVER.

  3. #33
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Johndrow View Post
    And there you have the difference between a REAL soldier and a bunch of arm chair want to be warriors. Your father sounded like a great man bonjovi. Thanks for the story


    There is nothing funnier than average men critiquing great men.

    If I remember right I think we whipped the Nazi’s and Japanese’s asses back during WWII and we should have jerked a knot in Stalin’s butt while we were over there. Never underestimate the desire of an American soldier to win…NEVER.
    My father was a good military man and recipient of both the Bronze Star and the Silver Star w/gallantry...unfortunately the Army never left my dad and my dad never left the Army, kind of the like the character in the movie the Great Santini....General MacArthur was a great man...period..
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Johndrow View Post

    There is nothing funnier than average men critiquing great men.
    Or wannabees who mistake eloquence for judgment.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member stoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Or wannabees who mistake eloquence for judgment.
    very very good point Ted
    Patrick,i think you have been living in a bubble.The major land battles of the european theatre occurred on the eastern front.When you say we whipped the germans ass I am assuming by we you mean the russians,australians ,brits ,canadians, and all the other members of the british commonwealth as well as the Americans.We certainly didnt whip them even though we severly outnumbered themThey were better than we were, we just had to many resources for them in the end
    Bon Im sure your father was a fine soldier and i commend him for his devotion to his CO.Many Americans feel the same way about McArthur but Im sure Wainwright didnt see it that way

  6. #36
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    True enough, not everey major land battle in Europe was fought on the Western Front, but how many of those battles on the Eastern Front would have been won without Lend Lease? It was the US Merchant Marine and the industrial base of the US that kept the Sovs in the war. It was also not Zhukov and Koniev who won the war for the Sovs, but Generals January and February. In retrospect had the Wehrmacht beaten the Sovs at Kharkov , Stalingrad and Kursk that wouldn't have been a bad thing, it would have helped weaken the USSR after the war. The south Pacific effort was similar, without Bull Halsey and the US Navy, how long would the Australian and NZ Navies have stood up to Yamamoto and company?
    Bob Gutermuth
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  7. #37
    Senior Member stoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usma65 View Post
    I was at West Point the day in May 1962 when McArthur gave the speech. After lunch he rose and spoke to us without notes and delivered what many to believe was the finest speech ever delivered by an American.
    Your post is full of misrepresentations and does not reflect the feeling of his fellow soldiers. Many of his former conrades in arms were there at WP that day. They sat in awe of a great military mind. It is interesting that today there are statues of the two you wish to disparage on the Plain at West Point. Someone obviously found their leadership to be something worth emulating.
    McArthur was certainly an impressive speach maker however.McArthur was one of the USA's most overrated generals.When he came to Australia in 1941 he was hailed as a saviour and feted by the australian public.The truth is that washington wonted to get rid of him and australia was about as far away as they could send him.the decision to send him to Australia from the philipines came from pressure from the Australian PM, John Curtain. McArthur could have stayed and fought if he had pushed hard enough but he was miracoiusly spared the fate of his successor Wainwright.He and his australian sidekick Blamey, grossly mis handled the new guinea campaign.McArthur was not a great warrior because he never got within 30 miles of a combat zone in WW2 except for photo shoots.To be fair he is acclaimed for his heroism as a divisional commander in WW1 He issued orders that demonstrated his total lack of understanding of the front line situation. he was very good at shifting the blame for all his gaffs and was greatly disliked by his immediate subordinates although his men still believed all the PR b/s that his office spewed forth. he is the second most disliked general in australia behind Blamey. Blamey will go down in infamy for giving that sickening speech to the 39th battalion about the rabbit that runs away . The 39th had just fought a fightening withdrawl against the best jungle fighters in the world and although outnumbered by 5 to 1 had inflicted massive losses on the japs on the Kokoda trail despite McArthur telling them to take offensive action when it wasnt possible
    To get a little historical perspective maybe you should read some of mark Boatners books He is an emminent US historian , Professor at West Point and WW2 vet In Australia McArthur disparaged his own troops and was very critical of the Australians ( amongst the finest troops in the world). he clashed with many Australian generals but managed to engineer Blameys appointment as Aust GOC Mc Arthur expected to direct the main effort against the japs but King and Nimitz saw to it that the pacific theatre was primarily a navy show. King and Nimitz also disliked Mc Arthur
    To McArthurs credit he is acclaimed for a particulariy brillant peice of generalship. His leapfrogging strategy carried out by Halsey, isolated the powerful jap garrison in Rabal and new britan with miminal casualities
    As a civil administrator in Japan after WW2 McArthur excelled and gained universal acclaim
    In Korea he had both success and massive failure His amphibious attack at Inchon was a masterpeice of military excellence but he then made serious mistakes. the first was to order another landing at Wonsan the second was his inability to grasp the concept of limited war and the third was his diasterous inability to anticipate the chinse reaction to his threat to their border at Yalu river this led to a humiliating and costly defeat. He finally got the hook for insubordination.
    Like most things the truth about ' great Men" is always a little different from the publicity
    and McArthurs publicity machine was unparelled
    Last edited by stoney; 11-05-2008 at 04:43 PM.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    I spent parts of the last 2 yrs reading Addm Samuel Elliot Morrison's History of US Naval Operations IN WWII. Even though Adm Morrison was Navy, he is full of praise for Gen MacArthur, interservice rivalries not withstanding. without Mac, Chesty Puller, Bull, Howlin Mad Smith, and others lots of folks would be singing Kimigayo instead of Waltzin Matilda or God Save the Queen at rugby matches.
    Bob Gutermuth
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  9. #39
    Senior Member stoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    I spent parts of the last 2 yrs reading Addm Samuel Elliot Morrison's History of US Naval Operations IN WWII. Even though Adm Morrison was Navy, he is full of praise for Gen MacArthur, interservice rivalries not withstanding. without Mac, Chesty Puller, Bull, Howlin Mad Smith, and others lots of folks would be singing Kimigayo instead of Waltzin Matilda or God Save the Queen at rugby matches.
    not sure what point you are trying to make Bob.No one is belittling the US involvement in the Pacific theatre. The japs are enthusiastic rugby players but not in our class I hope we always contiue to sing waltzing matilda before our test matches.They are a sporting event without parrarell
    bob wrote
    "True enough, not everey major land battle in Europe was fought on the Western Front"
    this is a strange statement Bob , by far the biggest and most numerous battles of WW2 were fought on the eastern front.I think the Russians would have a very different take on history to you

  10. #40
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    My point is that without the US Navy,and land forces, there would have been NO allied victory in the Pacific. The Royal Navies of Australia, NZ and Holland were no match for the IJN across the Pac, niether were their respective armies. Mac and Bull and the others saved the bacon of these and other allied nations. For this alone, mac et al deserve to be forgiven whatever foibles they may have had.

    Had the Sovs been beaten at Stalingrad, Kursk and Kharkov, the Nazis would still have lost the war, but a bonus for the US and the world would have been a weakened USSR with a corresponding lack of ability to stir the pot in places like Kenya, or to be competetive in the cold war.
    Bob Gutermuth
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