global warming

[Henry V]

Well IBD, you seem to want to equate an individual human's respiration with the millions of tons of CO2 coming from smokestacks across the world. I agree that equating the two is drivel. The polluter pays concept is about taking responsibility which is a pretty conservative concept from what I have learned here. There are lots of examples throughout modern history where the polluter did not pay up front and society as a whole was left paying much more in the long run. Do a search on "super fund sites" for great examples.

I would be glad to answer your question. It will be a nice little bookend to our discussion. You certainly have followed the tried and true process, you know, present contrary data, accuse me of ignoring it, attack the contrary data that I present, ignore the challenge of showing specific problems with the data I presented, and then accuse me of being a hypocrite. It works great on Al Gore and other messengers, right?

Well, sorry to disappoint you. My family has made lots of changes to our lifestyle to save energy and reduce our carbon footprint. To name a few, how about installation of a geothermal heat pump system at a huge cost, how about primarily driving a Prius and a diesel car that both average over 40 mpg, how about reducing miles driven as much as possible. Is that good enough for you or do you want more details?

[IowaBayDog]

Well, sorry to disappoint you. My family has made lots of changes to our lifestyle to save energy and reduce our carbon footprint. To name a few, how about installation of a geothermal heat pump system at a huge cost, how about primarily driving a Prius and a diesel car that both average over 40 mpg, how about reducing miles driven as much as possible. Is that good enough for you or do you want more details?

Sorry that doesn't cut it, those are all things that are supposed to save you money in the long run. Diesel? Those are down right evil and we won't even talk about the negative environmental impact of those nasty batteries in that Prius. I'm sure all those poor folks in Detroit on the unemployment line are glad you bought foreign made cars.

What dollars have you given to pure research or carbon credits? Not dollars invested to save you in the long run. This Global Warming is dire, the planet is dying and you sit back and do nothing but try to save yourself a few bucks

What is the temp in MN as you wrote this -20F or lower? It was -14 here this morning so I let my Suburban run an extra 1/2 hour to help the environment.

[badbullgator]

How long does it take to break even in cost savings with that prius compairde to my car that gets 24 mpg and cost much less? BTW where does that power to charge those batteries come from?

With gas cost falling I have been able to use the boat much, much more in an effort to increase my carbon footprint and offset all the work you guys are doing to make smaller "footprints"

[toddh]

BTW where does that power to charge those batteries come from?

good ol' North Dakota coal-fired power plants

[Henry V]

Sorry that doesn't cut it, those are all things that are supposed to save you money in the long run. Diesel? Those are down right evil and we won't even talk about the negative environmental impact of those nasty batteries in that Prius. I'm sure all those poor folks in Detroit on the unemployment line are glad you bought foreign made cars.

What dollars have you given to pure research or carbon credits? Not dollars invested to save you in the long run. This Global Warming is dire, the planet is dying and you sit back and do nothing but try to save yourself a few bucks

What is the temp in MN as you wrote this -20F or lower? It was -14 here this morning so I let my Suburban run an extra 1/2 hour to help the environment.

Hmmmm, I wonder why is decided to pass up this question the first time you threw it out there?

No way I ever could have predicted those responses, but I am disappointed in the lack of creativity and effort. Nothing about endangering my family, wearing sandals, eating granola, etc, etc.

IBD, you are misinformed about diesel cars and batteries. You are also under the false impression that reducing carbon means that we have to regress to a primitive lifestyle. A nice simple viewpoint to rally around but this is all about the future, not the past.

I'll will give you some credit though, in that first sentence you almost grasped the relationship between saving money, conserving energy, and reducing carbon. So close but then it slipped away........

Also, yes its frickin cold here, but then again you still don't get the difference between weather and climate, do you? I do own a GM product that does not get driven much. When GM produces a commuter car that can compete in the market, I'll buy one. Toyota has produced hybrids for 10 years. What were they ever thinking?

Keep that suburban running. The terrorists and Hugo Chavez need the support.

Should I now go over all the questions you failed to answer? You know, just what data was "cherry picked"?, etc, etc. Ah, forget it.
BBG said

How long does it take to break even in cost savings with that prius compairde to my car that gets 24 mpg and cost much less? BTW where does that power to charge those batteries come from?

I'll let you figure out the math. The car has 100K. It cost $22K. It has averaged 42mpg with nothing but basic maintenance. It seats 4 very comfortably.

Since both of you think the car plugs in, neither of you have any idea how a hybrid car works. Perhaps you should be engineers for GM or Chrysler.

[kjrice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJUFTm6cJXM

[subroc]

Set the flamingo free!

[IowaBayDog]

IBD, you are misinformed about diesel cars and batteries. You are also under the false impression that reducing carbon means that we have to regress to a primitive lifestyle. A nice simple viewpoint to rally around but this is all about the future, not the past.

I am more informed about diesel cars and batteries than you will ever be, those are things your fellow environmentalist wackos say about the batteries and diesel cars.

Here's some info for you from that right wing conspiracy at Berkeley. Gas wise they pollute less but there overall environment impact is substantial. At 100K your about ready to pollute by replacing the batteries.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~coreyp/hybridenvimp.html

"The greatest environmental impact comes from the pollution caused by the elaborate battery system that powers the electric engine. The battery pollution is substantial because the creation of the batteries requires destructive mining to produce the batteries and the caustic substances that power the batteries must later be disposed of. The caustic substances that power the batteries are very poisonous and when released into the environment leech into the waterways and poison groundwater."

[IowaBayDog]

Here is a picture for you Henry to explain the cherry picking from Mr. Seeley's chart. Even an Algornik who fell for the Hybrid farce should be able to understand.

[zeus3925]

Iowa:

Isn't there a saying that came from Iowa--don't try to teach a pig to sing, it just frustrates the teacher and infuriates the student.