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Thread: And So It Begins

  1. #11
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Actually this bill was intruduced in Feb 2008 and is now dead....

    http://www.azcdl.org/html/2008_bills.html#hb2833


    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    There is enough non numbered ammo out there that the crooks would not need to buy any of the tattle tale stuff for years. Only honest people obey the law anyhow.
    Bob Gutermuth
    Canvasback Chesapeakes
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    T he seriel # will have no effect on CRIMINALS!!!!!!!!!

    R eloaders will not be able to practice their hobby!!!!!

    O nly the good guys will be effected!!!!!

    L ikely no one will manufacture Arizona Specific Ammo at a reasonable price!!!!!!

    L eaves almost all hunting ammo in play (even goose loads)!!!!!
    Obviously someone thinks tracking serial numbers will have an effect on criminals. Following your logic, why have license plates for cars, boats, etc.?

    If one crime is solved as result of this, who cares about an increase in reloading costs?

    I would say that ammunition is already unreasonably priced (I shot trap this morning and the shells were $6 a box).

    I don't care if it leaves hunting ammo in play. Killing a goose is not illegal. Shooting a store owner is.

  4. #14
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Actually this bill was intruduced in Feb 2008 and is now dead....

    http://www.azcdl.org/html/2008_bills.html#hb2833


    /Paul
    No Paul...I wish you were right. One of my very best friends works in the Govs office and because some seats were lost by Repubs the sponsors are trying again to push it through. As I said before, I doubt it will ever make it to her desk but just the fact that such a bill could find four sponsors bothers me.....especially in this climate.

    ***I should have stated in the original post Paul is correct in that their first attempt at this did not make it out of committee. Gov stated on a radio talk show that if it made it to her she would sign it. The sponsors have a renewed vigor but have gained only a couple more votes so I hope it never sees the light of day.***
    Last edited by dback; 11-16-2008 at 01:50 PM. Reason: clarification

  5. #15
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    Obviously someone thinks tracking serial numbers will have an effect on criminals. Following your logic, why have license plates for cars, boats, etc.?

    If one crime is solved as result of this, who cares about an increase in reloading costs?

    I would say that ammunition is already unreasonably priced (I shot trap this morning and the shells were $6 a box).

    I don't care if it leaves hunting ammo in play. Killing a goose is not illegal. Shooting a store owner is.
    There's someone who thinks almost anything is a good idea -- doesn't mean we should do it. When I did a lot of target shooting, My son and I shot over 10000 rounds per year. Reloading saved over $1000/year for pistol ammo and that much again for rifle. For me the cost would have been prohibitive. Since adding serial numbers would also increase manufacturing costs, the financial impact would be greater. There would also be a question of how a serial number would be added without affecting bullet accuracy and still be useful in identifying the source of a bullet after it had fragmented in use. It seems to me that this is aimed more at harassing legal purchasers of legal ammo than it is at solving any crimes.

  6. #16
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    Any bullet I can think of, .222, .243, .270 , and so forth practically deforms into nothing. How will serial numbers help in tracking anything?

    Are they going to require a # on every piece of shot? You know some assault weaopons are shotguns....
    Terry Britton, P.E.

    Engineers believe that if it isn't broken, it doesn't have enough features yet.

  7. #17
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    It seems to me that this is aimed more at harassing legal purchasers of legal ammo than it is at solving any crimes.

    On the nosey!

    With each passing day, I get a stronger and more ominous feeling that we're about to see more laws enacted to legislate minutiae than we've ever had before, and more government agencies to enforce them. Sorta like "well, now we're here...let's do something, even if it's wrong....."

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  8. #18
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    Obviously someone thinks tracking serial numbers will have an effect on criminals. Following your logic, why have license plates for cars, boats, etc.?

    If one crime is solved as result of this, who cares about an increase in reloading costs?

    I would say that ammunition is already unreasonably priced (I shot trap this morning and the shells were $6 a box).

    I don't care if it leaves hunting ammo in play. Killing a goose is not illegal. Shooting a store owner is.
    WoW!

    This is the logic used by not only those in the gun control lobby and Brady campaign; this is someone that is a gun owner in the United States.

    He can afford ammunition so to hell with you.

    He doesn’t even want to know the genesis of the law:

    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    Obviously someone thinks tracking serial numbers will have an effect on criminals...


    It doesn’t matter who the someone is or what their motives are or even if the law is a good one or not. Here is a gun owner in the United States that believes restrictions and inconvenience to honest gun owners, without cause, is the solution to no stated problem. He advocates this course of action without reason.

    How do you feel about wire tapping foreign terrorists?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Captain Mike D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    Obviously someone thinks tracking serial numbers will have an effect on criminals. Following your logic, why have license plates for cars, boats, etc.?

    If one crime is solved as result of this, who cares about an increase in reloading costs?

    I would say that ammunition is already unreasonably priced (I shot trap this morning and the shells were $6 a box).

    I don't care if it leaves hunting ammo in play. Killing a goose is not illegal. Shooting a store owner is.
    Sir:
    ---- Are you really a college professor or did you just stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

    Reasons for asking are way to involved to begin to even try to explain here.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    Obviously someone thinks tracking serial numbers will have an effect on criminals. Following your logic, why have license plates for cars, boats, etc.?

    If one crime is solved as result of this, who cares about an increase in reloading costs?

    I would say that ammunition is already unreasonably priced (I shot trap this morning and the shells were $6 a box).

    I don't care if it leaves hunting ammo in play. Killing a goose is not illegal. Shooting a store owner is.
    The only power government has is by arresting people. When there are no longer people to arrest, the government has to create more laws in order to arrest more people. This is how dictators are born.

    Lets look at some statistics. Chicago and DC both had anti gun laws a few years ago, and both had higher murder rates than the rest of the USA. On top of that, there were more police per capita in DC than in Chicago, and likewise there were more murders in DC per capita than in Chicago.

    Bottom line, the more you try to opress people, and generate criminal for the system, the more criminals and violent criminals you will have.

    These laws will only turn good people into criminals, while the people who are already criminals won't change.
    Terry Britton, P.E.

    Engineers believe that if it isn't broken, it doesn't have enough features yet.

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