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Thread: Hey Remington....

  1. #11
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    So which side of the curve do you think the acorn folks were going after? The funny thing is blacks consistently score 10 to 15 points lower on IQ tests and any effort to find out why is shot down as racism. It's common knowledge that the first step in solving a problem is identifying the problem. I believe keeping a group of people thinking they can't make it without government help is racism in its purest form. You can't convince people that some external force is keeping them down and then expect them to work their way out of it. Liberals are the racists. My take on The Bell Curve.

    Tremayne
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  2. #12
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    So which side of the curve do you think the acorn folks were going after? The funny thing is blacks consistently score 10 to 15 points lower on IQ tests and any effort to find out why is shot down as racism. It's common knowledge that the first step in solving a problem is identifying the problem. I believe keeping a group of people thinking they can't make it without government help is racism in its purest form. You can't convince people that some external force is keeping them down and then expect them to work their way out of it. Liberals are the racists. My take on The Bell Curve.

    Tremayne
    \
    Actually the reasons blacks continue to score lower is known. It is because they predominantly inhabit the poverty stricken zones of our cities.
    Besides ill equipped schools and a sub-standard learning environments, have you ever tried studying on an empty belly? How about walking home from school past a spot where someone was shot last week. Throw in drugs, pregnancy rates and everything else that comes along with poverty and it is a wonder anyone from a minority school district ever succeeds.

    Your allusion to their mental capacity is incorrect. Poverty precludes these kids from sharing in the same cultural experiences and norms that our kids take for granted. The tests for I.Q. and proficiency sometimes include things that these kids have not been exposed too.


    BTW what are you basing that number on? I couldn't find it.


    Edit* Reading back through the thread what does what you are posting have to do with anything anyway? You just felt like asserting your "superior intellect" against disadvantaged kids today?
    Last edited by K.Bullock; 11-17-2008 at 03:43 PM. Reason: small rant
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Bullock View Post
    Actually the reasons blacks continue to score lower is known. It is because they predominantly inhabit the poverty stricken zones of our cities.
    Besides ill equipped schools and a sub-standard learning environments, have you ever tried studying on an empty belly? How about walking home from school past a spot where someone was shot last week. Throw in drugs, pregnancy rates and everything else that comes along with poverty and it is a wonder anyone from a minority school district ever succeeds.

    Your allusion to their mental capacity is incorrect. Poverty precludes these kids from sharing in the same cultural experiences and norms that our kids take for granted. The tests for I.Q. and proficiency sometimes include things that these kids have not been exposed too.


    BTW what are you basing that number on? I couldn't find it.


    Edit* Reading back through the thread what does what you are posting have to do with anything anyway? You just felt like asserting your "superior intellect" against disadvantaged kids today?


    If you were in a situation like that would you not spend every minute trying to get away from or out of it ??
    BTW our inner city school kids get breakfast and lunch on the state. To bad you cant use school vouchers and get into a decent school. BTW I know a inner city school principal and over 90% of his time is spent on security and behavior problems of non participating parent(s). If you also use statictics it likely safer in Iraq, Iran and Afganistan than alot of inner cities. I think our far town may have 1st place in murder rates locked up for the second year in a row.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  4. #14
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Amrein View Post
    If you were in a situation like that would you not spend every minute trying to get away from or out of it ??
    BTW our inner city school kids get breakfast and lunch on the state. To bad you cant use school vouchers and get into a decent school. BTW I know a inner city school principal and over 90% of his time is spent on security and behavior problems of non participating parent(s). If you also use statictics it likely safer in Iraq, Iran and Afganistan than alot of inner cities. I think our far town may have 1st place in murder rates locked up for the second year in a row.
    Again you answered your own question as to why test scores are lower.

    If you were in a situation like that would you not spend every minute trying to get away from or out of it ??
    When you were a kid could you just up and leave? You were talking about kids scores right? Try to think a little before posting.

    And again what does this have to do with the topic?
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  5. #15
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Bullock View Post
    Cool, so then it would be a big deal if I started putting posters up about how humanism played a role in Hitler's regime. And is responsible for one of the most depraved atrocities of the 20th century. ...see where I am going?

    Agreed soo... what's up with the posters? Why would you support singling out a group based on a broad generalization? Why are our symbols and traditions so offensive?
    I am hard pressed to understand what part of either the poster or the accompanying story represents an attack on Christianity. The poster says "Why believe in God. Be Good for Goodness Sake". I don't see that as an attack.

    Personally I am a non-theist. My belief is not an attack on Christianity or any other theist religion, it is simply my belief. Stating my belief publicly is no more an attack on Christianity than your stating a belief in God would be an attack on my beliefs. With respect to Nazi Germany, I believe you will find that most of the Nazi hierarchy attended Christian churches and most of the churches either supported or failed to challenge Nazism. That does not mean that those religions support Nazism, only that believers in any faith are ultimately human and can do very stupid and sometimes evil things.

    With respect to the "symbol" of Christmas, that has been secularized for more than a century. It is without doubt one of the two favorite holidays in my extended family of Christians and non-Christians (the second being Thanksgiving).

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Bullock View Post
    You have that right, and I would defend your right to practice your religion in peace. That's your business. ....right?

    So why is it acceptable to attack Christians?




    *unrelated i think...but still out of curiosity. Are Unitarians Monotheistic?
    And if so , by Unitarian Universalist, does that mean that you see One God in all religions? Does that explain the use of several holy books in your church?
    Unitarianism was historically monotheistic and rejected the notion of Jesus as a manifestation of God as a violation of that monotheism. Universalism was historically a Christian religion that believed (to simplify greatly) that God was simply too good to condemn anyone to hell. Both churches evolved in parallel ways and merged in 1961. Today the Unitarian-Universalist church expresses no creed. Rather it focuses on a shared set of principles:
    [From the UUA Website]
    "
    There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:
    • The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
    • Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
    • Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
    • A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
    • The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
    • The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
    • Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part."
    Members of UU churches have many beliefs. These are viewed as individual beliefs that may or may not be right for all. Writings from different religious traditions are read because each religion is viewed as an effort to find meaning in life and as such contains some inherent truth. Most UU's would reject the notion of any one religion being "correct" while the others are "incorrect".

    As I noted before, I am a non-theist. I would not generally call myself an atheist. For the most part, I think that belief (or non-belief) in God is irrelevant. What counts is how you live the life you have been given. If you live a good, caring, charitable and ethical life, then in my mind you are a good person. If there were a God capable of creating all the miracles that envelope our lives every day, I cannot imagine that God condemning such a good person regardless of that person's beliefs. In the same manner, if you live a life of selfishness, intolerance, and cruelty to others, I cannot imagine a God that would not condemn that life regardless of the individual's beliefs.

    However, my personal beliefs are just that. Other members of my church may or may not share them. That does not affect our common commitments which include, for me, going to church in a few more minutes where I will tutor homeless children for the evening as I have for the last five years. At least half the tutors there will be high school students, college students, and other adults who come from throughout the area and are not affiliated with our church. As I have for years, I will also distribute portraits that I have taken of these kids so they can take them "home" (typically a shelter, a motel, or other temporary housing) to their parents. I believe that it's important for these kids, as with any others, to know that they are beautiful.



    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    BTW Jeff. Are you serious in calling what you attend a church? Sounds more likely to be a cult gathering. .....

    UB
    Yes, UB, I am very serious, but that doesn't mean I can't have a sense of humor. If what I belong to is a cult, it is one that also claims as members many of our nation's founding fathers, and one that has been around for as long as Christianity.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Ahhh so its ok to sleep in class or not study I see it someone elses fault.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    So which side of the curve do you think the acorn folks were going after? The funny thing is blacks consistently score 10 to 15 points lower on IQ tests and any effort to find out why is shot down as racism. It's common knowledge that the first step in solving a problem is identifying the problem. I believe keeping a group of people thinking they can't make it without government help is racism in its purest form. You can't convince people that some external force is keeping them down and then expect them to work their way out of it. Liberals are the racists. My take on The Bell Curve.

    Tremayne
    \
    The Bell Curve was a study of poor white trash in general because the population studied was generally made up of those people. It was not a study of any race.

    While I am a fiscal conservative, I am also an individual that believes everyone deserves a fighting chance to be the best they can be. The welfare mentality & the mentality of government schools has created a monster. Many lack the necessary credentials to determine correct & wrong, just witness the bailout mentality of our politicians. GWB started it, now the donkeys are going to carry it to an art form.

    30+ years ago I was on a School Board in a district experiencing major growing pains with a very small tax base to draw upon. When looking at sources of revenue to accomodate students I suggested in open forum that the district look at charging some sort of impact fee to help us through those times. The press grabbed that, the Dems of which I was not one turned it into an art form. Every government agency charged a substantial fee to cover schools, roads. water, sewer, parks, etc. Housing was wonderful, & there was no end in sight. Which by itself would be not a bad deal if it were invested in infrastructure, but it is invested in non value items like large salary increases & cadillac benefits. & now they are whining because their goose that laid the Golden Eggs is dead. Isn't that too bad?

    But back to race, I know & admire the public serving lifestyle of many in this world irregardless of race. These people are not necessarily in public service (an oxymoron), but come from all walks. They are not necessarily individuals of perceived stature, many are ordinary folks like I believe myself to be. I know there are a lot of bigots out there, but that's their issue, I'm not in that camp.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Bullock View Post
    Actually the reasons blacks continue to score lower is known. It is because they predominantly inhabit the poverty stricken zones of our cities.
    Besides ill equipped schools and a sub-standard learning environments, have you ever tried studying on an empty belly? How about walking home from school past a spot where someone was shot last week. Throw in drugs, pregnancy rates and everything else that comes along with poverty and it is a wonder anyone from a minority school district ever succeeds.

    Your allusion to their mental capacity is incorrect. Poverty precludes these kids from sharing in the same cultural experiences and norms that our kids take for granted. The tests for I.Q. and proficiency sometimes include things that these kids have not been exposed too.


    BTW what are you basing that number on? I couldn't find it.


    Edit* Reading back through the thread what does what you are posting have to do with anything anyway? You just felt like asserting your "superior intellect" against disadvantaged kids today?
    I think I know a hell of a lot more about poverty then you'll ever know. I was raised in a shack out behind a church. When we moved out they fixed it up and turned into a storage shed. Every winter the water would freeze up, and we would carry what we needed from neighbors houses. I went hungry a lot. After paying rent on that shack my mother would have about $16 a month to buy cloths, toiletries,ect. My dad left her when she was pregnant with me, and never helped one bit, and was never to be herd from again. The house had a junk yard on one side on one side and a dumpster service on the other. No one in my family ever talked to us about the importance of education or hard work. In our neighborhood the first few days of the month was party time. The people called the 1st day of the month taco day. If you walked around the neighborhood on the first 5 or 6 days of the month all the adults were drunk, stoned,ect. On about the 10th they were at your door trying to sell you the meat they had bought earlier in the month or their food stamps for .50 cents on the Dollar. My friends sold drugs in the 5th grade sometimes to their parents. I qualified for free lunch at school, but after about 4th or 5th grade was to embarrassed to take it.
    I also know what it's like to work my way out of that crap. I started stocking sheetrock after school when I was in 10th grade. This was for $3.00 an hour when minimum wage was $3.35. This was for an uncle. He then gave me a job hanging drywall for the same wage. Once I learned enough to go out on my own I did. Once I started making descent money by running my ass off 12 to 15 hours a day. My wife started collage after 7 years out of high school, and got an electrical engineering degree. She was also raised poor with no help from family. She now manages around 35 engineers for a medical devices company.
    To answer your question I got my info from data from a study by Harvard psychologist Arthur Jensen. This was also a discussion we had in psychology class about The Bell Curve, and how when you bring it up your a labeled a racist. To be honest I brought it up to test that and see how long it would take for someone to jump down my throat

    Tremayne

    By the way the Jenen also did a study where Inuet (spelling?) people out scored whites on IQ tests and no one complained about that.
    Last edited by Hoosier; 11-17-2008 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Captain Mike D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    It's common knowledge that the first step in solving a problem is identifying the problem. I believe keeping a group of people thinking they can't make it without government help is racism in its purest form. You can't convince people that some external force is keeping them down and then expect them to work their way out of it. Liberals are the racists. My take on The Bell Curve.

    Tremayne
    \
    And that right there is the absolute truth!!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Coshocton, OH

    Demagraphics

    As of the census[4] of 2000, there were 36,655 people, 14,356 households, and 10,164 families residing in the county. The population density was 65 people per square mile (25/kmē). There were 16,107 housing units at an average density of 29 per square mile (11/kmē). The racial makeup of the county was 97.35% White, 1.09% Black or African American, 0.17% Native American, 0.32% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 0.20% from other races, and 0.84% from two or more races. 0.59% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. 29.4% were of German, 23.4% American, 11.6% English and 9.3% Irish ancestry according to Census 2000. 93.9% spoke English, 2.4% German and 1.5% Pennsylvania Dutch as their first language.


    Certainly a hotbed of diversity I see how actually living in a urban setting could give one insight of the effects of dealing with urban living.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

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