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Thread: GM_Ford_Chrysler Bailout

  1. #31
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I came to a small company before the current trend in teleconference. In the 90's I helped move manufacturing from a factory in Little Rock to Guadalajara. Meanwhile I was living in Cincinnati. I can't picture doing it all by remote control. You have to get personal with the folks and spend time in the factory and get your arms around what you're working with.

    That said, if it's time for blue collar workers to get competitive with the foreign workforce, it's time to take a look at executive compensation. It's ridiculous. Stock holders are getting fleeced.
    It is absolutely time for someone to take a look at pay scales for labor and management. But that someone should not be the Federal Government. If we look at all the failures of large corporations in the last few months, the common thread is government involvement. The left wants massive regulation, the right wants no regulation, so we wind up with this half-@$$ed mess that is neither free market capatalism nor total socialism and it just doesn't work.
    You can't tell the auto makers what kind of cars to make, regulate what kind of fuel economy they get, force them to pay ridiculous wages, etc. etc. and expect them to survive. The market dictates the product. We should have left them alone and let them succeed or fail on their own merit.
    You can't force mortgage companies to disregard their lending standards to make life "fair" and expect them to remain solvent. How is that plan working out?
    Then, when the chickens come home to roost (to borrow a phrase from my favorite preacher), the taxpayers have to shoulder the burden of government incompetence.
    Beware anyone who sells an idea using the word "fair".
    Matt McKenzie

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  2. #32
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    [QUOTE][/QUThere is a business case for private jets. I used to routinely fly around on a private jet with the company CEO. We would pile him and 6 or 8 other executives into the company jet and go conduct meetings at several locations. One day we had meetings in Detroit, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Chicago, and then finished up in Detroit again. Try that flying commercialOTE]


    That might be good business in other situations but I don't think these guys had other places to go. They were there with their pathetic little hands out. I'll bet for the 25 billion they'll hang out there all weekend . Right now its the only free money avaiable for the padding of their humungous salery and bonus plan.

    Today In the news they showed where all these men were asked if they were willing to take a salery reduction. All said hell no. But they would eagery cut the wages of the people who make the company work.
    They are scum dressed in a 3 piece suit, They lack character and integrety and should be fired without a penny of compensation and replaced with someone who cares about the workers and the product,,and have an eye for producing what people want then the auto industry will thrive again.

    They are a discrace to man kind and anyone who is willing to give them another 25 billion to line their pockets is off their rocker. What a sick country this is becoming.

    And AIG They still haven't payed out the loans to companies for running their buisiness. Thats what I heard alot of the money was appropriated for. Instead they threw a huge private party. Thats what the auto barrens will do too if they rape us of another 25 billion

    Pete

    PS Thats the first time I have ever needed to use the mad emoticon.

  3. #33
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Our local paper did a story today on retired auto workers take on this. Surprise, all of them favored it and they all feel the executives make too much. The interesting part was that they feel the government OWES it to the auto industry for, get this, winning WWII. Now I would down play their role in leading the way for the industrial war machine during WWII, but come on that does not entitle you to a government bailout. They were all also concerned about their pensions and the pensions of those currently working for the auto makers. Pensions??? That is part of the problem, paying union guys TOO much money in the first place and then supporting them for the rest of their lives. I don’t begrudge those who earned them many years ago when that was the norm, but pensions and life long healthcare have proven to be part of a bad business plan and very few if any companies offer this anymore. All of these retirees felt they were never adequately compensated for the work they did and feel that the workers today are getting the short end of the stick. This is a prime example of the union mentality that has caused a big part of this problem. Generations have been over paid for the job they do and it has been instilled in the current workers that they too are worth more than they are. Turning bolts and spot wielding is not worth the money they are paid.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snicklefritz View Post
    Mr. Booty said:

    (emphasis mine)

    Hope is not a plan!
    I use that expression all the time at work! You are correct, hope is not a plan. The best thing we can do for them and this coutry is not bail them out. However, I can be hopeful that they can work it out on their own.

    Let the free market reign and we will all be better for it!
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    pensions and life long healthcare have proven to be part of a bad business plan and very few if any companies offer this anymore.
    And this is a good thing?
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    And this is a good thing?
    It's reality.

    I'm a retiree of the Boeing Company, one that has a close to monopoly. You do not see them getting overly generous with anyone, except in recent times, the executives.

    They have taken a few strikes to establish management rights. They are also willing to move their entire production line if need be. What's there not to like about that management, except of course, the rewarding of executives?

    What tickles my funny bone is Mullaly moved to Ford because he didn't get the top job at Boeing, but drove a Lexus when hired. He wanted the top job at Boeing but was found lacking. He's cutting a fat hog at Ford, so much for his overall management skills. But typical of people who get to those positions, a very effective self promoter.

    Anyone who retires expecting all legs of the retirement stool to hold up have not practiced due diligence.

    The interesting thing about the Boeing Company is the 1st & 2nd level shop supervisors & the Lead Engineers could & do run the company as long as managements requests aren't too idiotic.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Booty View Post
    Let the free market reign and we will all be better for it!
    unfortunately mounds of local, state, and federal government regulations prevent any such occurrence, free markets are what happens at flea markets...

  8. #38
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    And this is a good thing?
    Yes and no. It has not worked and that is the way it is. I don't think one should expect a company you work for to take care of you for the rest of your life. Plan and save, IRA's 401K's, gold..... I am not of the school that anyone needs to take care of me be it who I work for or the government.
    Now if you want to work your life away at a reduced rate so that these benifits can be included that is a different story, but just give me mine and I will take care of myself
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  9. #39
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    Yes and no. It has not worked and that is the way it is. I don't think one should expect a company you work for to take care of you for the rest of your life. Plan and save, IRA's 401K's, gold..... I am not of the school that anyone needs to take care of me be it who I work for or the government.
    Now if you want to work your life away at a reduced rate so that these benifits can be included that is a different story, but just give me mine and I will take care of myself
    This is also the way I feel. I think it comes with being self employed all my working life. The problem with our way of thinking is so many people don't have the self control to do the right thing with their money. These people still think they have the right to retire at 62 or 65, but with no money of their own. I see this all the time with trades people. These people need someone to take care of them, manage their retirement. Otherwise at 70 they will be sitting there broke, naked, and confused as to what happened.

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    The fact is "Big 3" concessions to the UAW are a major factor in the failure of the "Big 3." The other major factors are the concessions to the state protected dealerships, concessions to local municipalities, and the CAFE standards. Therefore, if the unions, states, local municipalities, and the federal government can all get together and make major compromises, there would be no need for Chapter 11. RIGHT! The UAW will not give up the "Job Bank" or reduce their demands for pensions and health care! The states will not allow the excess dealerships to go out of business! The local municipalities will not give up their demands and the "greens" will not let the Democrats change the CAFE standards! The sad fact is that there are to many parties and to many demands for any solution outside of Chapter 11.
    Last edited by Paul Johnson; 11-20-2008 at 01:08 PM.

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