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Thread: Poll citing Obama supporters as uninformed challenged

  1. #1
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Default Poll citing Obama supporters as uninformed challenged

    A recent poll conducted by the Zogby corporation has come under fire for methods used in a poll that suggests that Obama supporters were not as informed as maybe they should have been. As I had commented in another thread the methodology of the poll was deeply flawed and now it seems other people agree.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/zogb...ma-voters-459/
    "..Interpreted the numbers from the survey in a misleading fashion."

    http://www.pollster.com/blogs/zogbys...owledge_te.php
    The Zogby summary quotes Ziegler claiming that "the poll really proves beyond any doubt the stunning level of malpractice on the part of the media in not educating the Obama portion of the voting populace."

    The problem, as Silver points out, is that the survey does no such thing. It proves only that Obama voters surveyed were less likely to attribute to Obama or Biden a half dozen statements that were "at best debatable, yet apparently represented as factual to the respondent" ...

    ... Describing his biased, leading questions as a legitimate test of knowledge is hugely misleading, at best.


    Even John Zogby himself is running from this survey, claiming it was put together while he was on vacation. While paying lip service to its ostensible validity, he adds:

    “I also believe it was not our finest hour. This slipped through the cracks. It came out critical only of Obama voters.”

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    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    I think all Obama voters are geniuses. They represent the greatest minds in the United States. Anyone that didn’t vote for Obama was far less intelligent, duped by the right wing talk shows and willing to live in the past. It is a shame the right couldn’t grasp the message of change.

    The poll results are an aberration and is a trick of the right. Being informed doesn’t mean knowing the issues being discussed at the national level and making a determination whether they are right or wrong, matter or don’t matter. Being informed means being an agent of change.

    You can take what you want from that poll. I will take what I want.

    Here are a block of voters from that bastion of liberalism, Harvard Square, and the reason they were voting for him. This was conducted by WEEI sports radio in Boston by the Dennis and Callahan show. While Dennis and Callahan lean pretty far right, Iggy is a staunch, card carrying lefty and he did the interviews.

    Listen directly:
    http://audio.weei.com/m/audio/21338271/iggy_in_harvard_square.htm?pageid=966

    Download MP3:
    http://media.weei.podzinger.com/archive/DennisAndCallahan/2008-11-04_Iggy_in_Harvard_Square.mp3

    You can take what you want from it.


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    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    The sad truth is that the majority of Americans, regardless of whom they voted for, are politically ignorant. Most have never read the Constitution, do not know the branches of government and the functions of each, cannot name their Senators or Representatives, have no idea how our income tax system works, certainly don't understand basic economics, can't find Afganistan on a globe and have no grasp of our history.

    And the politicians like it that way and want to keep it that way. A salesman's nemesis is an informed consumer. A politician's worst nightmare is an informed electorate.
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    I think all Obama voters are geniuses. They represent the greatest minds in the United States. Anyone that didn’t vote for Obama was far less intelligent, duped by the right wing talk shows and willing to live in the past. It is a shame the right couldn’t grasp the message of change.
    Glad to see that you can stay on script or keep to the playbook. Remember this quote:
    It just doesn’t matter to lefties. This is their playbook.

    Extreme left wing radical politicians are smart, anyone that is right of center is dumb.

    It is just their playbook.

    As in any debate or argument, when you resort to name calling you have lost the argument or debate on the merits.
    Why is it that the only folks here calling anyone "dumb" or "clueless" are those on the right?
    Like here:
    I know Obama got the vast majority of the vote from people with low intelligence.
    or here:
    Has anyone out there run across an Obama supporter that actually understands the economy and how it works?
    or here:
    Please tell my the left is not this dim?
    or here:
    The USA is proof a country can be great in spite of 60% of it's citizens being dumb-a$$es.
    or this thread:http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...light=liberals

    Yes, those that are left of you are losing the argument or debate on the merits.

  5. #5
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    please identify quotes.

    The first 2 are mine, but the rest...

    But, they are 2 separate things actually.

    The first was an attempt at humor playing off the Zogby poll that cotts135 posted and it is specific to voters that voted for Barack Obama. It appears cotts135 has this need to stand up for all the uninformed out there. You can take what you want from the original Zogby poll and the impromptu WEEI street interviews.

    The second is an assertion by me that the left views all presidential candidates on the right as less intelligent than those on the left. That was validated in this election by the vilification of Sarah Palin when similar gaffes by Joe Biden were dismissed.

    It was illustrated in the last presidential election when George W. Bush was identified as the dumb one when his college test score eclipsed those of John Kerry’s. Additionally, the United States Air Force selected Bush as a fighter pilot and the United States Navy selected Kerry as a Swift Boat captain. I expect that fighter pilot school is a bit more rigorous and challenging than Swift Boat captain’s school.

    Last edited by subroc; 11-22-2008 at 12:06 PM. Reason: added info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    The sad truth is that the majority of Americans, regardless of whom they voted for, are politically ignorant. Most have never read the Constitution, do not know the branches of government and the functions of each, cannot name their Senators or Representatives, have no idea how our income tax system works, certainly don't understand basic economics, can't find Afganistan on a globe and have no grasp of our history.

    And the politicians like it that way and want to keep it that way. A salesman's nemesis is an informed consumer. A politician's worst nightmare is an informed electorate.
    Ain't it the truth!

  7. #7
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    It appears cotts135 has this need to stand up for all the uninformed out there. You can take what you want from the original Zogby poll and the impromptu WEEI street interviews.[/COLOR]
    Since I am so outnumbered here I was just trying to be fair and balanced.

    Subroc........... we went through this very poll in another thread and I strongly implied that the poll was flawed because of distortion and non truths. I was kinda trying to support that position here today.

  8. #8
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Nothing in the article claims the results are false.

    The opposition to it are it was a hit job on one group of voters and the information they received or didn't in this case from the MSM.

    I expect informed voters knew of every one of the issues, good and bad, that were raised about both candidates. We chose to dismiss or put weight in those issues.

    This issue, the poll and its results, are a microcosm of the treatment that Obama and issues surrounding him and his candidacy received at the hands of the MSM. The less than fully informed voter wasn't informed at all by the MSM.

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    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    anyone else ever notice that Cotts links usually start with http//BLOGS.....

  10. #10
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Nothing in the article claims the results are false.
    Never claimed the results were false just said that the premises were not totally true.


    Quote Originally Posted by achiro View Post
    anyone else ever notice that Cotts links usually start with http//BLOGS.....

    What's that mean? I'll bet that if all my info was from the MSM you would imply something evil their too. I think it would be better if you argued the veracity of my arguments instead of where they came from .

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