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Thread: Playing Games at Gitmo

  1. #51
    Senior Member Captain Mike D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    What are we afraid of? Why aren't these people entitled to the rights we would expect if we were arrested in another country?
    Um----Excuse me but if you are arrested in another country I'm afraid you don't have your Constitutional rights. You will be tried based on the laws of the country you are in unless the State Dept. can wrangle you out of the country somehow.

    Foreign Nationals captured on the battle field never have had the same rights we do nor did the SCOTUS declare that they do.

    Wouldn't it be so nice to try those folks in a US court and the Feds have to give up the CIA op. that worked out the capture of a high value target for example. Way to much classified info that the Feds would not and should not give up during a trial by jury in US courts.

    This is a war that we are in and it is a World War with Fanaticist Islamists. The events in India that started yesterday should prove that point.

    As POWs those folks should sit in their cozy berths till the war is over or till THEIR COUNTRY negotiates their release. Problem is NO COUNTRY WANTS THEM. If they have committed acts that warrent they should be taken before a military tribunal and tried in that venue.

  2. #52
    Senior Member John Kelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    To imprison people without trial is so un-American. What are we afraid of? Why aren't these people entitled to the rights we would expect if we were arrested in another country? We don't release anyone UNLESS they are acquitted of the charges under which they were arrested.

    As far as the Ann Coulter article. . .the woman has no credibility. She has proven she is mentally unbalanced.
    You have the right to remain silent . You should use it .If you get arrested in another country , you are in that countries jurisdiction .THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS A CITIZEN OF SAID COUNTRY .Apparently you have never heard of a turkish or mexican prison , for example .
    And to be imprisoned before trial is common in this country .ie-flight risk , unable to post bond/bail ,threat to others or themselves ..... Wait a minute , that sounds like a description of GITMO POWs . Thats right , WAR . We are in one .You don't have a clue as to the justice system.Or to the jihad fanatics who wish you were dead , even as you plead their cause .
    SEMPER FI . FROM MY COLD , DEAD HANDS .

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  3. #53
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Anyone who believes we can throw due process out the window because we know the accused is guilty deserves to live without due process for himself or herself. With respect to Massoud, the question should be who released him and why. His release was decided by the military, not ordered by any court.
    And anyone who would behead someone and throw their body in the street. How do you deal with people like that. How about someone who would like to detonate a nuke in a major US city, or use biological weapon on our citizens. We are not dealing with some guys that stoled a candy bar or wrote a bad check. You can't treat these animals like humans they see that as weakness to exploit.

  4. #54
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    How do you deal with people like that.
    Maybe by holding yourself and your country to the higher standard that we say we stand for, rather than bringing ourselves down to their level just cause that's what they do. Where's the bottom line then?
    Do we really want to let 'the bad guys' set our standards for us?

    JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 11-27-2008 at 10:36 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  5. #55
    Senior Member Bruce MacPherson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Maybe by holding yourself and your country to the higher standard that we say we stand for, rather than bringing ourselves down to their level just cause that's what they do. Where's the bottom line then?
    Do we really want to let 'the bad guys' set our standards for us?

    JD
    I keep waiting for one of you guys to get it. Setting a higher standard works just fine when you are dealing with someone that has roughly the same values you do. Radical Islam doesn't care where WE set the standard. Their objective is to kill us. So if you want to be liked and respected by these guys I wish you good luck. I personaly have no bottom line when it comes to terrorists,
    "The longer you let a dog go in the wrong direction the more they think they are going in the right direction" Don Remien.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Joe S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Mike D View Post
    Foreign Nationals captured on the battle field never have had the same rights we do nor did the SCOTUS declare that they do.
    In previous wars, foreign nationals captured on the battlefield have been called POW. There rights and treatment standard was covered by the Geneva Convention.

    Wouldn't it be so nice to try those folks in a US court and the Feds have to give up the CIA op. that worked out the capture of a high value target for example. Way to much classified info that the Feds would not and should not give up during a trial by jury in US courts.
    This would assume that they are all HVTs, which they aren't, and that some big sources-and-methods operation was put together to take them down. So, what are we supposed to believe? "We captured this guy because he is bad and we know he is bad because we have classified information that proves it. I'm sorry we can't show you the proof because it's classified. You'll just have to trust us." Isn't that counter to EVERYTHING America should stand for? To suggest that there is no way to introduce the classified information in the court room is just plain wrong.

    As POWs those folks should sit in their cozy berths till the war is over or till THEIR COUNTRY negotiates their release. Problem is NO COUNTRY WANTS THEM. If they have committed acts that warrent they should be taken before a military tribunal and tried in that venue.
    So, now they are POWs, huh? If they were treated as POWs, we wouldn't have the situation we have now. Problem is, President Bush and his Ace #1 Legal Team have said they aren't POWs.

    Regards,

    Joe S.
    "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin

  7. #57
    Senior Member Joe S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Speaking of Gitmo...who better than Ann to set the record straight?

    Enjoy,

    UB

    Terrorists' Restless Leg Syndrome
    by Ann Coulter (more by this author)
    Posted 11/26/2008 ET
    Updated 11/26/2008 ET
    Wow, interesting article. I wonder where Ann stole the thoughts/ideas/words for this one?

    Ann Coulter is a plagiarizing harpy who, like Lady MacBeth, has not the milk of human kindness running through her breast.

    She, and people like her, are in very large part why the Republican Party lost the last election.

    She Can't Wash The Blood Off Her Pen Regards,

    Joe S.
    "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin

  8. #58
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltmarsh View Post
    I keep waiting for one of you guys to get it. Setting a higher standard works just fine when you are dealing with someone that has roughly the same values you do. Radical Islam doesn't care where WE set the standard. Their objective is to kill us. So if you want to be liked and respected by these guys I wish you good luck. I personaly have no bottom line when it comes to terrorists,
    You're entitled to your opinion. But when you allow your fear to be the cause for lowered standards, you've lost and they've won.
    Even if they don't care where the standard is set, shouldn't we?

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  9. #59
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    And anyone who would behead someone and throw their body in the street. How do you deal with people like that. How about someone who would like to detonate a nuke in a major US city, or use biological weapon on our citizens. We are not dealing with some guys that stoled a candy bar or wrote a bad check. You can't treat these animals like humans they see that as weakness to exploit.
    How should we deal with those in our own country who suggest that we should nuke other countries or other people, or that we should summarily execute the people in Gitmo, or that we should gun down those who hate us before they do it to us? Fortunately for some on this forum our laws do not generally punish bombast. The rules of war provide ample room for killing enemy combatants with enough gray area to cover a lot of sin. However, once we take people into custody our own rules -- defined by our treaties, our laws and our constitution -- take over. If you wantg to be judged by the standards of those that commit beheadings, maybe you should join up with them. I would prefer that our country not sink to that level.

  10. #60
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    #52 John Kelder



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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M Remington
    To imprison people without trial is so un-American. What are we afraid of? Why aren't these people entitled to the rights we would expect if we were arrested in another country? We don't release anyone UNLESS they are acquitted of the charges under which they were arrested.

    As far as the Ann Coulter article. . .the woman has no credibility. She has proven she is mentally unbalanced.


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