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Thread: Tis the season....

  1. #101
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    K bullock
    No apology necessary. We are just talkin , its one of my favorite things besides listening. While I may come across as kinda of a no it all I guess at times,,,even with my low IQ and writting skills. its actually not my motivation.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatyana View Post
    Joint tax returns, unlimited marital deduction, gift-splitting, etc. Tax reasons.
    To some it may seem frivolous, but pertinent to this point, was this past week's episode of "Boston Legal". The older Denny Crane, dx'd with Alzheimer's, decided he wanted to marry Alan Shore, his best friend, so that his estate would have an heir and would be used to good purpose, rather than just going to taxes. In Massachusetts, same-sex civil unions are legal.

    A gay rights group brought them to court when they applied for their marriage license, saying this was an "abuse" of the same-sex marriage statute's intended purpose. It should not be used simply to take advantage of tax and other laws that pertain to married couples.

    Of course, the defendants' marriage license was upheld by the Court. The statute makes no inquiry into the sexual habits of the two parties in a same-sex union. Therefore, two friends who had no other marital partners, could enter into such a civil union just as freely for purposes of friendship and support. Their sexual preferences had no bearing on their eligibility for their civil union.

    I thought this was a very interesting twist on such legislation.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatyana View Post
    Joint tax returns, unlimited marital deduction, gift-splitting, etc. Tax reasons.
    Piss off Christians by making a mockery of the marriage covenant; keeps them in the news so they can continue their “looks at me I am gay” campaign of self-worth.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The City of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, is in big trouble. They publicly call themselves "The Christmas City." When you enter the city limits you are greeted by signs that have a Moravian Star (a stylized star decoration originating with the Protestant Moravian denomination that founded the city), and the signs direct you to "follow the star" to various places of interest in the city.

    The Moravians, not just a sub-division of Lutheranism, but their own denomination, founded the city. The original Moravian "Widows and Orphans Home" is now a museum of sorts for these relgious-based origins of the city. The Moravians were sort of a "commune" who cared for all members of their denomination, hence the need for the facility to care for widows and orphans in a communal fashion. The Moravian Church maintains the museum, not the city. But the church did not put up those "follow the star" signs

    At this time of year, Bethlehem's lamposts are decorated with lighted Christmas trees.

    The small town just south of Bethlehem has a large Christmas Tree in front of its municipal building. There is no nativity, but isn't the lighted tree considered a Christian symbol as well?
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  5. #105
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Johndrow View Post
    Piss off Christians by making a mockery of the marriage covenant; keeps them in the news so they can continue their “looks at me I am gay” campaign of self-worth.
    Doesn't it ever occur to you that they might be in love and want to declare their union to their family and community in the same manner as a heterosexual couple? Does it ever occur to you that they do not see their relationship as perverted? Why do you think gays should remain in the shadows just because you believe their behavior is inappropriate? Should hunters stay in the shadows because 95% of our population doesn't hunt? Do hunters only hunt to piss of the PETA/HSUS crowd? Do we only own guns to irritate liberals?

    I have no problems with churches having their own rules defined by their own religious beliefs. However, I don't believe it is government's job to enforce those rules. From my experience with gay couples seeking to marry, their decisions have everything to do with their relationship to each other and nothing whatsoever to do with what you believe or think about their union.

  6. #106
    Senior Member K.Bullock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    The City of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, is in big trouble. They publicly call themselves "The Christmas City." When you enter the city limits you are greeted by signs that have a Moravian Star (a stylized star decoration originating with the Protestant Moravian denomination that founded the city), and the signs direct you to "follow the star" to various places of interest in the city.

    The Moravians, not just a sub-division of Lutheranism, but their own denomination, founded the city. The original Moravian "Widows and Orphans Home" is now a museum of sorts for these relgious-based origins of the city. The Moravians were sort of a "commune" who cared for all members of their denomination, hence the need for the facility to care for widows and orphans in a communal fashion. The Moravian Church maintains the museum, not the city. But the church did not put up those "follow the star" signs

    At this time of year, Bethlehem's lampposts are decorated with lighted Christmas trees.

    The small town just south of Bethlehem has a large Christmas Tree in front of its municipal building. There is no nativity, but isn't the lighted tree considered a Christian symbol as well?

    A lot of small towns in this area were founded by Moravian missionaries. I had not heard of them before moving here. I belong to an ecumenical organization which includes Moravian's so I got to know some. It is an interesting story about how their denomination came about. I especially like their feelings towards dogma and doctrine..."In essentials unity in non essentials liberty" The phrase is not original to them but the church has adopted it. Great people.


    You can find the same Moravian star that is in Bethlehem, PA hanging around Gnadenhutten, Ohio just a few miles up the road from here.
    Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Doesn't it ever occur to you that they might be in love and want to declare their union to their family and community in the same manner as a heterosexual couple? Does it ever occur to you that they do not see their relationship as perverted? Why do you think gays should remain in the shadows just because you believe their behavior is inappropriate? Should hunters stay in the shadows because 95% of our population doesn't hunt? Do hunters only hunt to piss of the PETA/HSUS crowd? Do we only own guns to irritate liberals?

    I have no problems with churches having their own rules defined by their own religious beliefs. However, I don't believe it is government's job to enforce those rules. From my experience with gay couples seeking to marry, their decisions have everything to do with their relationship to each other and nothing whatsoever to do with what you believe or think about their union.
    We will disagree on this issue for ever.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Bruce MacPherson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Doesn't it ever occur to you that they might be in love and want to declare their union to their family and community in the same manner as a heterosexual couple? Does it ever occur to you that they do not see their relationship as perverted? Why do you think gays should remain in the shadows just because you believe their behavior is inappropriate? Should hunters stay in the shadows because 95% of our population doesn't hunt? Do hunters only hunt to piss of the PETA/HSUS crowd? Do we only own guns to irritate liberals?

    I have no problems with churches having their own rules defined by their own religious beliefs. However, I don't believe it is government's job to enforce those rules. From my experience with gay couples seeking to marry, their decisions have everything to do with their relationship to each other and nothing whatsoever to do with what you believe or think about their union.
    It occurs to me that they see their relationship as perfectly normal, to them.
    I have never had a problem with civil unions, a business relationship if you will, but marriage is a different story.
    Are we really becoming so enlightened that we feel the basic tenents of a civilized society are no longer valid? Or are we all left to define our own reality and declare it perfectly acceptable.Where does it end?
    "The longer you let a dog go in the wrong direction the more they think they are going in the right direction" Don Remien.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Doesn't it ever occur to you that they might be in love and want to declare their union to their family and community in the same manner as a heterosexual couple? Does it ever occur to you that they do not see their relationship as perverted? Why do you think gays should remain in the shadows just because you believe their behavior is inappropriate? Should hunters stay in the shadows because 95% of our population doesn't hunt? Do hunters only hunt to piss of the PETA/HSUS crowd? Do we only own guns to irritate liberals?

    I have no problems with churches having their own rules defined by their own religious beliefs. However, I don't believe it is government's job to enforce those rules. From my experience with gay couples seeking to marry, their decisions have everything to do with their relationship to each other and nothing whatsoever to do with what you believe or think about their union.
    Why do advocates for gay marriage always try to make it out that we want all gays to stay in the closet and not tell anyone of their sexuality. It has nothing to do with that. They want to enter into a religious ceremony, that is what marriage is believe it or not. I'm still confused why people who are not excepted by another group of people want to partake in their ceremony. If you want a civil union fine its a contract no big deal there but to want to get married is ridiculous, quite frankly they are not wanted in the religious community because it is outlined that homosexuality is not allowed so why do they want so badly in?

  10. #110
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    Why do advocates for gay marriage always try to make it out that we want all gays to stay in the closet and not tell anyone of their sexuality. It has nothing to do with that. They want to enter into a religious ceremony, that is what marriage is believe it or not. I'm still confused why people who are not excepted by another group of people want to partake in their ceremony. If you want a civil union fine its a contract no big deal there but to want to get married is ridiculous, quite frankly they are not wanted in the religious community because it is outlined that homosexuality is not allowed so why do they want so badly in?
    As a religious institution, marriage is controlled by churches, not the government. Certain churches -- my own among them -- have been performing marriage ceremonies for gay couples for many years. Most churches do not permit such ceremonies and I believe that is their absolute right. From a civil law perspective, I think civil unions are appropriate for all -- heterosexual or homosexual. Keep government out of the religious ceremony and there is no risk that it will be distorted by politics.

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