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Thread: Tis the season....

  1. #41
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    I think they have the legal right to do it. With that said just because you can do something within the law doesn't mean you should. It's rude, disrespectful, and they should get a boot in their ass for doing it. I'm not Catholic, does that mean I should go call a nun a bitch? Legally I probably can get away with it. I wouldn't because I shouldn't.
    I can agree with you on some of those things. For instance the Supreme Court has ruled that Flag burning although as distasteful as it might be is an expression of Free speech and is allowed. I don't think you should do it but since it is allowed you shouldn't get a boot in the ass because you do.
    Last edited by cotts135; 12-09-2008 at 07:04 AM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Bullock View Post
    I guess I agree with your sentiment, but I do not agree that they have a "right" to display what they displayed next to the nativity. It wasn't about simply speaking to the atheist point of view, it was put there specifically to stifle a Christian expression of faith.

    They do not have the right to shut Christians up, or put Christians in their place as it seems that is their goal. Your right ..it is rude, but it is even more than that.
    The sign the Aethist's put up was at the State Capitol Building in Olympia Washington. The Supreme Court has been consistent and clear about such displays and that once Government decides to allow one Religous display or point of view it can't discriminate and not allow another. You might not agree with it but yeah they are allowed to do it.
    I fail to see where they are stifling any Christian expression of faith or trying to shut up people because of their Christian belief. It seems to me to be just the opposite is happening.

  3. #43
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    So are you suggesting that the only public displays permitted during the "Christmas Season" would be Christian ones? And how exactly are you defining the "Christmas Season"? Right now it seems to start on Thanksgiving and continue until after New Years.

    I believe in good manners and mutual respect in all dealings, including interactions among these with different religious beliefs. However, I don't expect others to defer to my beliefs and I don't see any reason why I should defer to the religious beliefs of others. This year Hanukkah begins on December 22. Are you suggesting that it should be rescheduled to stay out of the way of Christmas?

    Personally I try to celebrate my beliefs every day that I am alive and am happy that I live in a country where that is not just possible but welcome.

    I think everybody can practice what they want, however, I do not believe that they need to celebrate whatever it is atheist celebrate at the same time as Christians celebrate Christmas and Jews celebrate Hanukah. I feel this is even more true when the atheists feel that not only do they need to have a holiday during the same time, but they also feel the need to disparage the other groups calibration. If they want to have a holiday in January or June and have their own holiday season I will not feel the need to go put up signs next to their displays stating that they are WRONG, which is EXACTLY what they are doing in this case. Heck I will even join in the party, June has no exciting holidays so why not then? Seriously, Christmas as a holiday is a Christian Holiday. Why can’t those of other faiths just allow Christians to celebrate the season without having to cut in on it? There are 365 days in the year and Christmas is but one (given the “season” last nearly a month), leaving 364 OTHER DAYS for them. I don’t know much about the atheist “religion” but do they have a long standing tradition, 100’s of years, of celebrating during the Christmas season? I believe in freedom of religion, but I think raining on another’s parade is as close to being intolerant to another religion as you can be. They are shouting about their freedom while trying to take it from others.
    From what I have seen and personally experienced this seems to be far more of an issue with the atheist than between any other religions. Jews are celebrating at the same time as Christians with no conflict (at least here). I have many friends that are Jews and I wish they Happy Holidays and they do the same to me. No conflict, I don’t beat them down and call them Christ killers and they don’t beat me down and say Christians are morons for believing in Christ.
    I kind of look at it like this, Christians and Jews picked their days long, long ago. Those days are now like a hotel that is full. You are welcome anytime, but right now we cannot accommodate you so you will have to schedule for another date. Why is that such a problem? No one is forcing them to go to church or confess that Jesus is their savior. They don’t have to buy a single Christmas gift, a tree, a ham, or a single card if they chose not to. I promise that if the atheists pick a day as a holiday I will protest any attempt by Christians, Jews, or any other religion to interfere with their day(s).
    Like old Rodney King said…”can’t we all just get along”?
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  4. #44
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    I can agree with you on some of those things. For instance the Supreme Court has ruled that Flag burning although as distasteful as it might be is an expression of Free speech and is allowed. I don't think you should do it but since it is allowed you shouldn't get a boot in the ass because you do.
    I think this is the problem. People now think they can treat others as rude and disrespectful as they want without consequence. Maybe fear of getting their butt kicked would put some of these people on track. So yes I'm advocating slapping the rude.

  5. #45
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    I think everybody can practice what they want, however, I do not believe that they need to celebrate whatever it is atheist celebrate at the same time as Christians celebrate Christmas and Jews celebrate Hanukah. I feel this is even more true when the atheists feel that not only do they need to have a holiday during the same time, but they also feel the need to disparage the other groups calibration. If they want to have a holiday in January or June and have their own holiday season I will not feel the need to go put up signs next to their displays stating that they are WRONG, which is EXACTLY what they are doing in this case. Heck I will even join in the party, June has no exciting holidays so why not then? Seriously, Christmas as a holiday is a Christian Holiday. Why can’t those of other faiths just allow Christians to celebrate the season without having to cut in on it? There are 365 days in the year and Christmas is but one (given the “season” last nearly a month), leaving 364 OTHER DAYS for them. I don’t know much about the atheist “religion” but do they have a long standing tradition, 100’s of years, of celebrating during the Christmas season? I believe in freedom of religion, but I think raining on another’s parade is as close to being intolerant to another religion as you can be. They are shouting about their freedom while trying to take it from others.
    From what I have seen and personally experienced this seems to be far more of an issue with the atheist than between any other religions. Jews are celebrating at the same time as Christians with no conflict (at least here). I have many friends that are Jews and I wish they Happy Holidays and they do the same to me. No conflict, I don’t beat them down and call them Christ killers and they don’t beat me down and say Christians are morons for believing in Christ.
    I kind of look at it like this, Christians and Jews picked their days long, long ago. Those days are now like a hotel that is full. You are welcome anytime, but right now we cannot accommodate you so you will have to schedule for another date. Why is that such a problem? No one is forcing them to go to church or confess that Jesus is their savior. They don’t have to buy a single Christmas gift, a tree, a ham, or a single card if they chose not to. I promise that if the atheists pick a day as a holiday I will protest any attempt by Christians, Jews, or any other religion to interfere with their day(s).
    Like old Rodney King said…”can’t we all just get along”?
    I will go back to my analogy of the flag burning I might not like it which I don't but I respect their right to Free Speech. This is what makes America different than the rest of the world our ability to express our believes without recrimination. I certainly don't agree with what they have posted but again it is their right.
    You seem to think this is a Freedom of Religion issue, I disagree, this is about Free speech. These people want equal opportunity to voice there opinions nothing more or nothing less. Nowhere are they asking to have a public holiday for themselves.
    Another thing I don't understand is since when does posting a sign in a Public place equate with trying to take someones religion away from them. It would seem to me that that would only apply to someone insecure about their own beliefs.
    Finally your humor and analogy's are very good

  6. #46
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    I think the government offices that cave to this type of pressure should then be open for business. Then I Can go get my plates renewed.

    Its also like a few years ago when I had a problem with some BS and long lines at walmart. The lady used the excuse "Sir you do know its busy at Christmas" My reply was since the store policy was to not acknowledge Christmas so your excuse does not hold water.

    I had to add Merry Christmas on all of our holiday cards and all of our employees signed including those that held non Christian beliefs. both Jewish and Muslim folks I know are not threatened or offended with my Christian holiday any more than I am of there's. They seem happy for our holiday just as I do on theirs. If you can get a following and have a holiday for Darwin's birthday have at it.

    Merry Christmas regards
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  7. #47
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    I will go back to my analogy of the flag burning I might not like it which I don't but I respect their right to Free Speech. This is what makes America different than the rest of the world our ability to express our believes without recrimination. I certainly don't agree with what they have posted but again it is their right.
    You seem to think this is a Freedom of Religion issue, I disagree, this is about Free speech. These people want equal opportunity to voice there opinions nothing more or nothing less. Nowhere are they asking to have a public holiday for themselves.
    Another thing I don't understand is since when does posting a sign in a Public place equate with trying to take someones religion away from them. It would seem to me that that would only apply to someone insecure about their own beliefs.
    Finally your humor and analogy's are very good
    I can go either way freedom of speach is fine too, but just becasue you have the right to do something does not mean it is right to do. By that token I have the right to call blacks niggers, Asians gooks, Polish Polocks.... I could do that becasue I have freedom of speech, but it is not the right thing to do (nor do I actually want to). Placing a sign knocking religion next to a religious display may be "free speech" but it not tolerant of others free speech. I have no problem with placing a giant sign along every interstate saying God id Dead or BS or whatever, but placing the same sign acroos the street from a church is mean sprited and an abuse of your freedoms. They ONLY reason the atheist want to display anything during this time of year is to disparage Christians and that is not right.
    I never said it is trying to take their religion away by placing a sign. Please tell me in your opinion, what is the point of doing it though.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  8. #48
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Amrein View Post
    I had to add Merry Christmas on all of our holiday cards and all of our employees signed including those that held non Christian beliefs. both Jewish and Muslim folks I know are not threatened or offended with my Christian holiday any more than I am of there's. They seem happy for our holiday just as I do on theirs. If you can get a following and have a holiday for Darwin's birthday have at it.

    Merry Christmas regards
    Steve
    Most Christmas's I have at least two non Christians that I work with over for dinner. I can tell you neither of them are offended at our holiday and both are actually very much into "Christmas" just not for the religious reasons. They both have trees and buy and recieve presents and I can say one of them is actually way more into the "season" than I am. Both of them also enjoy Thanksgiving even though it has little or no significance to them. I think the people this was posted about are very much the vocal minority who only want to spoil things for others while preaching that they are in fact fighting for their freedom of speech or religion or lack of as the case may be
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  9. #49
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    Placing a sign knocking religion next to a religious display may be "free speech" but it not tolerant of others free speech.
    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    I never said it is trying to take their religion away by placing a sign. Please tell me in your opinion, what is the point of doing it though.
    Agree with most of what your saying here. I am not sure I get your point that there not tolerant of others free speech. I really think it is much about nothing. One side puts up a display the other puts up a sign denouncing religion and it is all in a public place. I just think that people are a little more sensitive in this issue than they need to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    They are shouting about their freedom while trying to take it from others.
    Should have changed the word religion to Freedom.

    I think they do it for equal time. Here is a quote from The Foundations Co president Dan Barker: ""Our members want equal time," Barker said. "Not to muscle, not to coerce, but just to have a place at the table."

  10. #50
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Maybe the Christian message should read non believers will go to hell and every day will be a 1000 times worse than the last.

    Or

    Have a Merry Christmas.


    Maybe the atheist should get a PR person to word the sign

    Its all in the delivery regards......
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

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