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Thread: Short bird marking - Secondary vs Ideal selection

  1. #101
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B View Post
    Yes,,, Thank U Dennis!!!

    We could use a few more guys like YOU around this joint....

    There's always a jackass in every crowd....

    Don't be a stranger,,, Please?

    Angie
    Angie, leave my ass out of it......


    and I might as well stick up for my friend bubba.......keep bubba and his ass out of it as too....




    Can't we just get back to expounding personal thoughts on if dogs like to go long or not...?

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
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  2. #102
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    And just where would you like me to leave your sorry Ass,,, and the Ass of your little friend too? "My Pretty" hehehe.........

    Why is it always about you and Bubba,, Paul?? Y????

    Angie

  3. #103
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B View Post
    And just where would you like me to leave your sorry Ass,,, and the Ass of your little friend too? "My Pretty" hehehe.........

    Why is it always about you and Bubba,, Paul?? Y????

    Angie
    Oh it ain't all about us......



    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  4. #104
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    So you think your Ass and your Bubba's Ass is gonna fit into some itty bitty jello cup???

    I'm sure the designated, "Jack Ass", for thsi forum could help us with this 1!! He no's everthang.... U don't even hast to ask hm....



    Angie

  5. #105
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Well, squeezing Bubba or my ass into one of those little cups would definitely be secondary selection, but squeezing your's into one would be ideal selection. See, this topic ain't so hard to follow if you illustrate it right....

    /paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
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    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  6. #106
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Once again, Ed Aycock's theory proves true. (all good threads can degrade into Gobbledygook)

    What a bummer...

    But seriously, I think that to many, this thread was among the most refreshing, envigorating, dog-training methodology stuff that we'd seen in a long time.

    I know brother Terry (Trog) is worried that Dennis won't come back. I sure hope that's not the case.

    Guys and gals...I ask that you please write to and address others as you yourself would like to be addressed. I believe brother Fallon has issued an apology, which was cool.

    Have fun, train smart...and for my fellow flatlanders, be careful out there...this ice storm is SLICK!
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    Once again, Ed Aycock's theory proves true. (all good threads can degrade into Gobbledygook)

    What a bummer...

    But seriously, I think that to many, this thread was among the most refreshing, envigorating, dog-training methodology stuff that we'd seen in a long time.

    I know brother Terry (Trog) is worried that Dennis won't come back. I sure hope that's not the case.

    Guys and gals...I ask that you please write to and address others as you yourself would like to be addressed. I believe brother Fallon has issued an apology, which was cool.

    Have fun, train smart...and for my fellow flatlanders, be careful out there...this ice storm is SLICK!
    Don't worry Chris,,, Just having a little fun at the "party poopers" expense... All harmless and kinda funny... Party Poopers are good for something.... We're trying not to take him tooo seriously. To do so would be a huge mistake....

    No harm done...

    How can you be bummed out?? It's Christmas for cry'n out loud...

    Get the high octane egg nog and cookies....

    Angie

  8. #108
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Well, Chris, it doesn't have to be that way. Yet how much can be said? Short bird marking is a concept, some dogs get it, others struggle. Some struggle with flowerpots, pinch birds, O/U's, hidden or retired. Selection is typically a tool people use to make up for a dog struggling with those concepts. This is what makes an Ideal selection dog so special and frankly rare. To have a dog that is comfortable enough and trained well enough to handle all these concepts consistently is truly a special dog.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
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    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
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    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Well, squeezing Bubba or my ass into one of those little cups would definitely be secondary selection, but squeezing your's into one would be ideal selection. See, this topic ain't so hard to follow if you illustrate it right....

    /paul
    I don't care WHO you are, that right there is FUNNY

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Dennis,

    I didn't get a clear perspective on Dave's "Ideal selection" principle, either, but rather just came away with the idea that he pretty much sent for the go bird (whether long or short) and let the dog indicate which he got next. Did you get that sort of impression?

    Evan
    This (ideal selection) was a method that Rex worked on diligently in his later years. Some of his clients didn't approve...but he pursued this avenue in part due to what Grady (hello, Grady!) mentioned in his post (below) about the pressure necessary to properly and thoroughly train a dog in primary selection, but also because so many people didn't do that correctly...that being training for primary selection but without using the amount of flyers necessary to really get the job done reliably... Rex continually worked to improve his training methods and as trials and tests continued to evolve and the dogs did the same, he wanted the means to consistently pick up birds with style and pleasing attitude, two attributes that often came up short with primary selection, particularly when half-baked.

    Quote Originally Posted by GG
    Is primary selection part of the training program for teaching ideal selection? Do you teach ideal selection to all dogs are just the animals that handle pressure well? When i trained trial dogs many years ago, primary selection was the key to getting the short bird thrown first. However, in my career i only had a handful of dogs that could handle that kind of pressure. The dogs and training methods have improved since that time and i am interested in the thinking behind all of these techniques and theories.
    GG
    It can be, or not, or better put, it depends...on any given dog. For some dogs, yes, for others, no...but in Rex's mind the key to ideal selection was that ideal selection worked best for dogs that didn't/don't handle pressure well...and yet he also came to see that primary selecting dogs often began "ideal" selecting on their own.

    It was indeed this phenomenon that prompted him to pursue ideal selection...or one of the catalysts, that is.
    --Vickie Lamb
    "If we cannot subject ourselves to the demands of strict accuracy and precise performance, then we must be content with second-rate rewards." --Rex Carr
    The Ultimate Hunting Dog Reference Book

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