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Thread: Rumsfeld and Ashcroft in legal Jeopardy

  1. #21
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=badbullgator;378642][quote=cotts135;378618]Your missing one point Hew. What I did and when I did it was legal at the time. My contention is that what Rumsfeld and Ashcroft have done is illegal.


    Perhaps the best example of someone having their head so far up their ass that they can’t tell if it is day or night. It is OK when applied to me, but not for others.......
    You living in another dimension? Read everything I said not just part of it and do me a favor the next time you quote me use the whole quote
    not just the part that suits your needs

    Obviously your mindless submission to whatever the government says and your lack of critical and objective thinking is going to make it impossible to change your mind on what should be done in this case. My point in this whole thread is that there should be an investigation and if there is enough evidence to indict them then do it.
    I think it safe to say you would disagree with that, and that's fine, but I think doing so says that these guys are above the law and that's something I think is wrong.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Your missing one point Hew. What I did and when I did it was legal at the time. My contention is that what Rumsfeld and Ashcroft have done is illegal.
    Bush authorized the interrogation methods with an executive order. Executive orders have the force of law. So those interrogation methods were legal at the time.

    What I don't want to see is a bunch of Sgt's and private's swinging in the wind for policies that were made by unethical politicians.
    That's strange, because earlier in this thread I could have sworn you agreed with the premise that "I was just following orders" is not an acceptable excuse. If it's crystal clear to you that illegal torture occured, then surely it should be crystal clear to the "torturers" as well, no? As a former CO, would you have followed an order that you thought was illegal/immoral? So maybe you can clarify...do torturers have legal liability for their actions or not?

    Yardley was right...pursuit of these lawsuits does nobody any good. But if you're contending that only Rumsfeld and Ashcroft should be tried, then you're all but agreeing this is nothing more than political hackery and payback at its ugliest.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    What are all the liberals crying about? Thanks to the gullability of many of the electorate, you have your guy in the White House, and control both houses of congress, so get over yesterday already and start working on the better future that Comrade Obama promised us. OR are you going to run the country like a bananna republic and spend all your time prosecuting everything that the previous administration did or tried to do during its term?

    Me, I'm part of the conservative underground that will continue to resist until we throw these momsers out in 2012.
    Last edited by Bob Gutermuth; 12-31-2008 at 11:35 AM.
    Bob Gutermuth
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  4. #24
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    Me, I'm part of the conservative underground that will continue to resist until we throw these momsers out in 2012.
    Bob, what's a momser? Do you refer to "momism", 'an excessive devotion to mothers', or to the Greek God Momus, the God of mockery and censure?

    My Mom wants to know,

    JD

    ...and talk about crying, here's Unca Bill for ya,

    As expected...
    ...the after-election crowd is just as similar as the crowd prior to the election...and exhibiting the same demeanor.

    HEY...all you lefties...YOU WON...YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPY...YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IN A HEALING MOOD. YOU HAVE ELECTED THE "SECOND-COMING" (Proof is supplied by no less an authority that a person named Remington...a dude with an honorable gun name spewing anti-gun rhetoric in almost every post)

    Now that we have discussed how much you are in lock step with the 'messiah'...happy for all the blessings he'll bestow on the great unwashed...you know the lesbians and gays...how much you'll enjoy sharing your wealth with those that have none...how happy you'll be to have your new neighbors from south of the border filling your schools to overflowing, while spitting on the flag (hey..it's their RIGHT) and giving the bird to those showing any respect for the USA by reciting their Pledge of Allegiance.

    Your elation should be unrestrainable, as you view the losers in the process of eating their own, and whining and moaning because they've been duped into thinking they had a winner, not realizing he was selected by the same press that selected the aforementioned messiah.

    Why are you the least bit concerned about the economy, when I watched so many of your constituents that were so well educated by your new leader, that they will no longer need to make house payments, or auto payments, and they can party hardy when that big check comes in the mail from their saviour Obama.

    But you should be concerned about the withdrawal so many of those hard working campaign followers are going through. I say keep those donations flowing, so those campaign workers don't need to go on welfare, and become embarrased. And I know you'll do it happily, because your messiah would want you to be happy and fulfilled.

    That's why it's so disheartening to not see a special fund get started to begin the tax collecting, even before it's required after the messiah takes office. Just think of how many constituents you could help right now, when they really need it....and before they 'get educated' into realizing it ain't gonna happen... because you and I both know they were voting for Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the tooth fairy all rolled into one.

    Like I warned before, keep your powder dry boys, because in these folks eyes, you ARE the haves. Just because you voted to enable all these have-nots, don't think it gives you a free pass. So laugh it up...be joyous for the fun season ahead. Keep smiling, so everybody will wonder what you are up to.

    And just to show y'all, my hearts in the right place, I leave you with some light poetry.

    UB

    The election is over,
    The talking is done.
    My party lost, your party won.
    So let us be friends,
    Let arguments pass.
    I'll hug my elephant,
    You kiss your ....donkey
    __________________
    Waaah, waaah, waaah!!! regards,
    JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 12-31-2008 at 10:25 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  5. #25
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    Momser is a Yiddish word that refers to the legitimacy of one's birth.
    Bob Gutermuth
    Canvasback Chesapeakes
    ROLL TIDE!

  6. #26
    Senior Member shootncast's Avatar
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    Is this The Retriever Training page or did I accidentally sign up to www.spewyourpoliticalbullshitonme.com?

  7. #27
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Bush authorized the interrogation methods with an executive order. Executive orders have the force of law. So those interrogation methods were legal at the time.
    Generally speaking you are correct. However EO's can be challenged in the court system as to their lawfullness.


    That's strange, because earlier in this thread I could have sworn you agreed with the premise that "I was just following orders" is not an acceptable excuse. If it's crystal clear to you that illegal torture occured, then surely it should be crystal clear to the "torturers" as well, no? As a former CO, would you have followed an order that you thought was illegal/immoral? So maybe you can clarify...do torturers have legal liability for their actions or not?
    In an absolute way I am afraid they do. Trust me I don't like this at all and that's why I suggested they get a pardon

    Yardley was right...pursuit of these lawsuits does nobody any good. But if you're contending that only Rumsfeld and Ashcroft should be tried, then you're all but agreeing this is nothing more than political hackery and payback at its ugliest.
    I disagree with Yardley on this. To overlook it is almost to condone it which leads to more law breaking. At a minimal my thoughts are that a thorough investigation be done.

    Not contending that only Rumsfeld and Ashcroft be tried that is what was in the Newsweek article. Again I am not partial to any political party, if your involved and you broke the law then you need to held accountable.

  8. #28
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    Momser is a Yiddish word that refers to the legitimacy of one's birth.
    Aah... you meant mamzer. Actually then, the plural would be mamzeyrim
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  9. #29
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    Its been a while since I perused The Joys of Yiddish but I believe there are several spellings listed. Who would think on this forum someone else would know Yiddish??
    Bob Gutermuth
    Canvasback Chesapeakes
    ROLL TIDE!

  10. #30
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootncast View Post
    Is this The Retriever Training page or did I accidentally sign up to www.spewyourpoliticalbullshitonme.com?

    Shootncast, this is the Political forum section created by the site owner to keep political discussions separate from the main, RETRIEVER TRAINING section. If you dislike political talk don't let the sun set on you but some of us enjoy discussing politics amongst largely like-minded folks and baiting the dozen or so liberals who regularly try to impose their trilateral humor on us.

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