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Thread: Brady Bunch's latest gun grabbing ideas

  1. #31
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Remington View Post
    You guys are the NRA's dream. They keep saying "they're going to take your guns away," and you guys keep giving money.

    Obama has shown no interest in ending traditional gun ownership.

    The 2nd is not about traditions, target shooting, or hunting.

  2. #32
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    After reading the link to the Brady proposals, I find I agree with most and disagree strongly with many. I think the challenge to say which are "common sense" and which are nonsense is a fair one and I've summarized my own beliefs below. What I do not buy is the argument that every regulation is the beginning of the end of private gun ownership. In fact, I believe that the refusal of the NRA to give any consideration how laws and regulations might help reduce violent crime without impinging legitimate uses is already backfiring because it alienates so much of the public.

    Please excuse the caps. I copied the proposals from the document's tablde of contents.)

    Those that I think are commonsense are in black, those that I consider nonsense are in red, and those that warrant rational discussion are in blue.

    EXTEND BRADY BACKGROUND CHECKS TO ALL GUN SALES, INCLUDING ALL GUN SHOW SALES - In my opinion, no guns should be transferred by any means without a record of the transaction and an accompanying background check. This should include private sales, inheritances, gun shows, etc.

    FULLY FUND THE NICS IMPROVEMENT ACT

    CLOSE THE “TERROR GAP” TO DENY FIREARMS TO TERRORISTS - Given the number of errors and the lack of process controls over the so-called terrorist suspect lists, it would be wrong to use them as the basis for any official action.

    PROHIBIT GUN POSSESSION BY VIOLENT MISDEMEANANTS AND PERSONS
    CONVICTED OF VIOLENT ACTS AS JUVENILES
    - Too loose a standard

    RESTRICT LARGE-VOLUME HANDGUN SALES TO REDUCE TRAFFICKING - I like the idea but think one gun per month is inappropriate. I'm also not sure how this can be enforced without a national database of purchases that is maintained in the background check database.

    GIVE ATF STRONGER AND MORE FLEXIBLE AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE THE
    LAW AGAINST CORRUPT DEALERS

    STRENGTHEN ATF’S ABILITY TO CRACK DOWN ON GUN DEALERS WHO SELL TO STRAW PURCHASERS

    REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO REPORT LOST OR STOLEN GUNS

    REQUIRE LICENSED DEALERS TO ADOPT MINIMUM SECURITY SAFEGUARDS TO PREVENT GUN THEFTS

    REQUIRE LICENSED GUN MANUFACTURERS AND DEALERS TO PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS ON THEIR EMPLOYEES

    PREVENT DEALERS FROM LIQUIDATING THEIR INVENTORY WITHOUT
    BACKGROUND CHECKS AFTER THEIR LICENSES HAVE BEEN REVOKED

    REQUIRE ALL NEW GUNS TO HAVE MICROSTAMPING CAPABILITY BY A DATE CERTAIN - I'm not sure this has benefits warranting the cost and think it probably classifies as nonsense. Microstamping ammunition, which is not part of this proposal, is clearly nonsense in my opinion.

    REQUIRE DEALERS TO REPORT INFORMATION ABOUT GUNS SOLD TO MANUFACTURERS TO STREAMLINE TRACING OF CRIME GUNS - Should this be done through the manufacturers or should this information be preserved in the background check database. I'm not crazy abut the idea of any national database of ownership, but tend to believe that this may be needed.

    RESTRICT MILITARY-STYLE WEAPONS - This amounts to outlawing a weapon because you don't like its looks.

    REQUIRE CONSUMER SAFETY STANDARDS AND CHILDPROOF SAFETY FEATURES FOR FIREARMS - I still have trouble with childproof caps on my medicines. I can just imagine trying to squeeze and turn the barrel of my gun while pulling the trigger and not shooting myself

    REQUIRE MINIMUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR HANDGUN OWNERS AND IMPROVE RECORDKEEPING OF HANDGUN TRANSFERS

    IMPROVE NATIONAL VIOLENT DEATH REPORTING SYSTEM DATA, AND RESTORE FIREARMS RESEARCH FUNDING FOR THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 01-17-2009 at 09:01 AM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixidawg View Post
    And those that howl the loudest about the 1st amendment are the first to trash the 2nd amendment....
    And vice versa.

  4. #34
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    After reading the link to the Brady proposals, I find I agree with most and disagree strongly with many. I think the challenge to say which are "common sense" and which are nonsense is a fair one and I've summarized my own beliefs below. What I do not buy is the argument that every regulation is the beginning of the end of private gun ownership. In fact, I believe that the refusal of the NRA to give any consideration how laws and regulations might help reduce violent crime without impinging legitimate uses is already backfiring because it alienates so much of the public.

    Please excuse the caps. I copied the proposals from the document's tablde of contents.)

    Those that I think are commonsense are in black, those that I consider nonsense are in red, and those that warrant rational discussion are in blue.

    EXTEND BRADY BACKGROUND CHECKS TO ALL GUN SALES, INCLUDING ALL GUN SHOW SALES - In my opinion, no guns should be transferred by any means without a record of the transaction and an accompanying background check. This should include private sales, inheritances, gun shows, etc.

    How will this help other than being a hassel and added $$$ from the law abiding gun owner? Why does the government need to know how many guns I own?

    FULLY FUND THE NICS IMPROVEMENT ACT

    I don't know what this is so no comment right now

    CLOSE THE “TERROR GAP” TO DENY FIREARMS TO TERRORISTS - Given the number of errors and the lack of process controls over the so-called terrorist suspect lists, it would be wrong to use them as the basis for any official action.

    This goes hand in hand with the first item, who is going to run the show and are they going to be able to do it right? I don't think so

    PROHIBIT GUN POSSESSION BY VIOLENT MISDEMEANANTS AND PERSONS

    Who decides this? Is it not already against the law for felony offenders to own guns? Are most acts of violence not felony crimes?

    CONVICTED OF VIOLENT ACTS AS JUVENILES
    - Too loose a standard

    RESTRICT LARGE-VOLUME HANDGUN SALES TO REDUCE TRAFFICKING - I like the idea but think one gun per month is inappropriate. I'm also not sure how this can be enforced without a national database of purchases that is maintained in the background check database.

    National database......see above, who and how?

    GIVE ATF STRONGER AND MORE FLEXIBLE AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE THE
    LAW AGAINST CORRUPT DEALERS

    Not sure what "More FLEXABLE Authority" means, but I don't like the idea of "Flexable Authority" with any government agency way too broad

    STRENGTHEN ATF’S ABILITY TO CRACK DOWN ON GUN DEALERS WHO SELL TO STRAW PURCHASERS

    See above

    REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO REPORT LOST OR STOLEN GUNS

    Again not sure this will help anything other than for the antis to make an argument that many stolen guns end up in the hands of criminals and therefore we should not be allowed to onw them becasue a bad guy might steal them. How many of you have ever actually lost a gun? This also goes back to the fact that the government has no need to know how many weapons I own.

    REQUIRE LICENSED DEALERS TO ADOPT MINIMUM SECURITY SAFEGUARDS TO PREVENT GUN THEFTS

    This does not sound too bad, but need more details. It does give them an "in" to create standards that are too $$$$$ for dealers to adopt and do business much like the much talked about increase in ammo cost. If you can regulate the cost of doing business to a level that prohibits people from doing it that business goes away and yet you never had to "ban" that business

    REQUIRE LICENSED GUN MANUFACTURERS AND DEALERS TO PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS ON THEIR EMPLOYEES

    Not sure why this is an issue. Have their been cases where manufacturers have had employees do something that causes a need for greater background checks?

    PREVENT DEALERS FROM LIQUIDATING THEIR INVENTORY WITHOUT
    BACKGROUND CHECKS AFTER THEIR LICENSES HAVE BEEN REVOKED

    REQUIRE ALL NEW GUNS TO HAVE MICROSTAMPING CAPABILITY BY A DATE CERTAIN - I'm not sure this has benefits warranting the cost and think it probably classifies as nonsense. Microstamping ammunition, which is not part of this proposal, is clearly nonsense in my opinion.

    REQUIRE DEALERS TO REPORT INFORMATION ABOUT GUNS SOLD TO MANUFACTURERS TO STREAMLINE TRACING OF CRIME GUNS - Should this be done through the manufacturers or should this information be preserved in the background check database. I'm not crazy abut the idea of any national database of ownership, but tend to believe that this may be needed.

    RESTRICT MILITARY-STYLE WEAPONS - This amounts to outlawing a weapon because you don't like its looks.

    REQUIRE CONSUMER SAFETY STANDARDS AND CHILDPROOF SAFETY FEATURES FOR FIREARMS - I still have trouble with childproof caps on my medicines. I can just imagine trying to squeeze and turn the barrel of my gun while pulling the trigger and not shooting myself

    REQUIRE MINIMUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR HANDGUN OWNERS AND IMPROVE RECORDKEEPING OF HANDGUN TRANSFERS

    IMPROVE NATIONAL VIOLENT DEATH REPORTING SYSTEM DATA, AND RESTORE FIREARMS RESEARCH FUNDING FOR THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION

    Why?

    Bold text added
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  5. #35
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    I believe that there are a couple reasonable objectives in a gun control program:
    • Require background checks to ensure that purchasers are not otherwise prohibited from gun ownership.
    • Identify and curb those who feed illegal gun channels by purchasing guns and reselling them to people precluded from ownership.
    The absence of background checks for gun shows and private transactions effectively undermines efforts to control purchases by individuals prohibited from ownership. The background check process has become sufficiently efficient and inexpensive that I see no reason not to have it performed in every transaction.

    My impression is that the illegal gun market is fed primarily through a mix of straw purchasers buying guns in a legal or fraudulent manner from legitimate dealers and by theft of legally owned guns. Unfortunately, guns used in crimes may never have been reported stolen until the legal owner is asked about the gun, leading to the suspicion that the guns were sold rather than stolen. I think that it is likely that the market in illegal guns could be dramatically curbed by aggressively tracking the source of guns used in crimes and curbing practices that support illegal sales where this can be done without significant impact on legal purchasers and sellers. I believe some of the proposals would help.

    I am personally troubled by the notion of a national database for guns sold since I am generally more frightened of the government than I am of any civilian criminal. However, I could be convinced to support such a database as part of a balanced program to control the illegal market.

  6. #36
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I believe that there are a couple reasonable objectives in a gun control program:
    • Require background checks to ensure that purchasers are not otherwise prohibited from gun ownership.
    • Identify and curb those who feed illegal gun channels by purchasing guns and reselling them to people precluded from ownership.
    The absence of background checks for gun shows and private transactions effectively undermines efforts to control purchases by individuals prohibited from ownership. The background check process has become sufficiently efficient and inexpensive that I see no reason not to have it performed in every transaction.

    My impression is that the illegal gun market is fed primarily through a mix of straw purchasers buying guns in a legal or fraudulent manner from legitimate dealers and by theft of legally owned guns. Unfortunately, guns used in crimes may never have been reported stolen until the legal owner is asked about the gun, leading to the suspicion that the guns were sold rather than stolen. I think that it is likely that the market in illegal guns could be dramatically curbed by aggressively tracking the source of guns used in crimes and curbing practices that support illegal sales where this can be done without significant impact on legal purchasers and sellers. I believe some of the proposals would help.

    I am personally troubled by the notion of a national database for guns sold since I am generally more frightened of the government than I am of any civilian criminal. However, I could be convinced to support such a database as part of a balanced program to control the illegal market.
    Much like the illegal drug market has been "controlled" perhaps? It will work just as well.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Much like the illegal drug market has been "controlled" perhaps? It will work just as well.
    Oh yeah...they really got a handle on that...gun control freaks make me laugh...they have NO idea what they are talking about.

    I personally support the Constitution and all of its amendments ….not sure how anyone can pick a chose.

  8. #38
    Senior Member AmiableLabs's Avatar
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    Shouldn't this be moved to POTUS Place?
    Kevin Walker

    Drive is the manifestation of Desire, and measured in Style.
    Thank you judges who score Style, you are preserving Desire!

  9. #39
    Senior Member AmiableLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The absence of background checks for gun shows and private transactions effectively undermines efforts to control purchases by individuals prohibited from ownership. The background check process has become sufficiently efficient and inexpensive that I see no reason not to have it performed in every transaction
    When I was involved in the debate, the goal of those who wanted background checks at gun shows was to end gun shows. Gun shows are on weekends. The government offices required for doing the checks were closed on weekends.

    It is already a crime for someone who would fail a background check to be trying to purchase a gun. So we offered the antis a compromise -- that the gun show dealers would call in the background checks on Monday, and if they failed, the buyer's name could be turned over to law enforcement. But the antigun legislators wouldn't have it. As I said, they want to end the gun shows. That is their goal.
    Kevin Walker

    Drive is the manifestation of Desire, and measured in Style.
    Thank you judges who score Style, you are preserving Desire!

  10. #40
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    When I was involved in the debate, the goal of those who wanted background checks at gun shows was to end gun shows. Gun shows are on weekends. The government offices required for doing the checks were closed on weekends.

    It is already a crime for someone who would fail a background check to be trying to purchase a gun. So we offered the antis a compromise -- that the gun show dealers would call in the background checks on Monday, and if they failed, the buyer's name could be turned over to law enforcement. But the antigun legislators wouldn't have it. As I said, they want to end the gun shows. That is their goal.
    I agree that was their intent, but it's not mine. At this point I can go into a gun store on a Sunday and have a background check completed in a few minutes with a fee of $5. If that could make a significant dent in illegal gun trafficking it would be worth it.

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