Do they lie?

[Mike Perry]

In a recent post some one referenced Rex Carr I believe in stating that dogs don’t lie, we don’t read them properly.
I was watching the Rorem handling DVD and he made a similar statement re: the cues they send us and how we need to be attentive and pick these up to be good handlers.
So question is this: How do we explain whistle refusals, cast refusals, and bad lines to marks?
Assuming a well trained dog knows to sit on the whistle, when it does not is not this a lie? Same thing on a cast refusal. Dog sees you, and knows which way to turn and goes a different direction on a cast. Can this be explained by suction and factors only or is there another explanation?
And then at the line on a mark, I would think that most (I have) have had a dog give all the correct cues that they are locked and loaded and then hunt all over 40 acres on a relatively simple mark.
Lie, no lie or just being dogs?

[Angie B]

No they don't lie Mike. You're not reading your dog properly...

Or you really don't know your dog or their doggie behavior in a particular situation,,, namely your set-up or whatever you're training on.

My dogs give me very few surprises...

Angie

[Mark Littlejohn]

Mine lie all the time:

"I'm hungry"
"I'm cold"
"No one has fed me in a week"
"I don't understand"
"I need in (or out)"
"I'm abused / ignored at home, and need my butt scratched"

They're pathological.

Mark

[Snicklefritz]

OK, here's a neophyte opinion. No, they don't lie. For sure, there have been times when I thought my dog was locked on, only to have him zing off toward the suction the miinute I said, 'Back!'. And, there have been times when I believed my dog is going take an 'over' or 'left-straight back', only to go for the suction (sometimes in the opposite direction) the minute I give the cast.

What I'm slowly learning is to watch the signals much earlier, say when you first walk the dog to the line (Where's the dog looking before he sits?), or where's he looking as soon as he sits on a whistle (does his behavior during the stop and sit give a clue where he thinks he should go?).

What is most intimidating is knowing damned good and well your dog is going somewhere you don't intend, and not having a clue what to do about it. How many times can you 'NO!' a dog off suction, or re-heel the dog before time begins to create another problem like head swinging?

No, I don't think the dogs lie. Perhaps, we (ok, me!) are just not adept enough at discerning the truth the dog is telling us.

[BonMallari]

Mine has those "Lyin Eyes "....oh wait thats my ex that has those eyes, obviously didnt read her well at all

[Angie B]

What is most intimidating is knowing damned good and well your dog is going somewhere you don't intend, and not having a clue what to do about it. How many times can you 'NO!' a dog off suction, or re-heel the dog before time begins to create another problem like head swinging?

You're way over thinking this....

If you told your child "No,,,, don't do that"... and they do it again. You know they understand but for whatever reason,, they don't listen, or willingly change their behavior...

Then,,, Oh well,,,, Sorry,,, but there are consquences for not listening to what your "mother" is saying.... There is nothing wrong with holding your child/dog accountable for the task they're given.

Now after saying that,,, if your child/dog is trying to perform the task properly, but they can't that day for some reason. Then I will help them through it, because I know they are trying.

Don't over think it...

Angie

[Snicklefritz]

Now after saying that,,, if your child/dog is trying to perform the task properly, but they can't that day for some reason. Then I will help them through it, because I know they are trying.

Don't over think it...

Angie

<chuckling> Yup! I overthink it. But, I'm really more in line with your thought that the dog is not outright being defiant. It's more like he just can't help himself - like being in the backseat at the drive-in move LOL! But, he's still being honest

[Angie B]

<chuckling> Yup! I overthink it. But, I'm really more in line with your thought that the dog is not outright being defiant. It's more like he just can't help himself - like being in the backseat at the drive-in move LOL! But, he's still being honest

He's only honest in so far as he's telling you what he's thinking. Is it "right, or wrong" in the his mind considering his training and his responsablility to that training?

Could be a big difference????

Angie

[John Kelder]

OK , so when my boy's eyes are locked , and just the very tip of his nose is going back and forth like slow windshield wiper blade ,I say his eyes are lying . Just like my last girlfriend when I think about it .......

[Snicklefritz]

Angie_B said:

He's only honest in so far as he's telling you what he's thinking. Is it "right, or wrong" in the his mind considering his training and his responsablility to that training?

Could be a big difference????

Angie

ROFLMAO - And you say I'm overthinking it?