The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: where did I go wrong?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1

    Default where did I go wrong?

    I bought a cbr two years ago. I have never had a dog before so I was told to buy "waterdog by Richard Wolters" and have it read before purchasing. My dog did everything the book said he would do. I was so impressed I stopped training after he could sort of do a blind retrieve with hand signals. I also skipped the part of releasing a live bird and letting him chase it. I live in Phoenix and did not know where the ducks were yet so he has never seen a bird in the field. Last weekend I got into all the ducks I could want and they were landing 10 feet in front of us in the water. My dog would swim to them on my command and just nuzzle them or completely ignore them. After i got some on shore I tried throwing them in the water for him and he refused to go get them. The guy I was hunting with says dogs have it or they don't, is there a way I can get him excited about the birds as I am?

  2. #2
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    nowhere Alabama
    Posts
    1,460

    Default

    Your experience is not that uncommon. Most dogs are unsure of ducks when they first see one and many will not pick one up in the water. They like the smell and are curious but are not sure they want that thing in their mouth. This is also not uncommon with the first cripple encountered.

    Take feathers or a wing off the ducks and attach them to your bumper. Then try again using ducks. Freeze a few and thaw them out when you want to train. This works for some dogs.

    The only way to definitively fix the problem is to go back and force fetch the dog. Be especially attentive forcing with ducks and I would force with every gamebird you ever expect your dog to retrieve.

    Mark L.

  3. #3
    Member BlackDog1337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Rockport, TX
    Posts
    78

    Default

    So ive nvr trained any labs lol but an getting started an have been looking at all kinds of training stuff online an on tons of sites i see that they have the bottles of stuff that is suppose to smell like ducks im guessing that is meant to have the same effect as the feather.

    idk though maybe mark can tell me yes or no on this one since i dont really know much about this stuff just wat i have read so far.

  4. #4
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    nowhere Alabama
    Posts
    1,460

    Default

    I've used the duck scent in a bottle. It helps the dog use its nose and is usefull for that reason. To me it doesn't smell like any ducks I have ever killed but the dogs love it.

    The problem in this case is not so much the smell. It is the new texture of the feathers and the warm body. A lot different than anything the dog has ever retrieved. I normally start my puppies retrieving duck wings as soon as they will pick something up and start carrying it. All I have trained were carrying wings at 8-10 weeks old. This gets them used to the texture of the feathers and the smell of a real duck. As they age I use electrical tape to attach wings to the bumpers. And as soon as they can pick up a duck I introduce that to them. I try to keep one teal a year for pups but when introducing it I keep it frozen at first so they don't eat it. Then thawed and freshly killed and finally live shackled ducks.

    With an older dog like this you can still go through the same introduction and move forward as the dog is comfortable with each step. But I will repeat myself, the only sure fix is force fetch. Until this is done the dog has the option to just not pick up the bird and you have no way to make him.

    Mark L.

  5. #5
    Member BlackDog1337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Rockport, TX
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    But I will repeat myself, the only sure fix is force fetch. Until this is done the dog has the option to just not pick up the bird and you have no way to make him.

    Mark L.

    So i have read a little about force fetch but im guessing its just what it sounds like you just make them fetch even when they don't want to? i know there are a lot more step to it then that but is that the short of it?

  6. #6
    Kristie Wilder
    Guest

    Default

    the bottom line is that you were asking your dog to retriever something he had no experience with. birds should be introduced in a front yard or a field where you can throw the bird around, play with it, get him used to it. Going hunting is NOT a good way to introduce birds!! But it looks like you figured that out.

    While I want every dog I work with to be force fetched, it's not the only answer to your question. I would bet that if he had been introduced to birds, he would have at least retrieved your birds and delivered them back to the general vicinity.

    So my opinion is that FIRST you need to get him some birds to retrieve at home and in training before you go hunting again. And it sounds like you got some during this hunt.

    THEN, once he's retrieving birds in training and having general good manners with them, feel free to hunt again -- knowing that if you have NOT done a complete training program (including force fetch) that he may get the birds and be sloppy with them.

    Your friends answer that "some have it, some don't" -- that doesn't fly with me... You HAVE to introduce dogs to birds and work with them outside of hunting. Hunting is NOT the place to do it. There are probably some dogs that would have done just fine. But most dogs, esp when they're older and have never seen a bird, question what you're asking them to pick up because it's now been two years of their life and they've never seen a bird.

  7. #7
    Kristie Wilder
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog1337 View Post
    So i have read a little about force fetch but im guessing its just what it sounds like you just make them fetch even when they don't want to? i know there are a lot more step to it then that but is that the short of it?
    That's what force fetch looks like on the surface and to some extent it is. But it's more a process for the entire remainder of a training program to create a finished dog. It teaches the dog to respond to pressure in a stable manner, stay calm and relaxed. It teaches them that if you face adversity of any sort, you can deal with it and complete a retrieve. It teaches them that if they feel a collar correction at 200 yards, they stay calm and attempt to correct what they did wrong instead of panicking or just sitting there doing nothing...

    So it's a WHOLE LOT more than just "making them retrieve" -- although on the surface, that IS part of what it does.

    -K

  8. #8
    Member BlackDog1337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Rockport, TX
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Thank you kristie

  9. #9
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,355

    Default

    Kristie has it right. Most dogs need to be familiar with birds before they'll retrieve them in a hunting situation.

    Force fetch is a much bigger undertaking for a casual trainer than is introduction to birds. I'd work on familiarizing your dog with birds first, and see if the results are satisfactory. You may find the bird interest suddenly switches on, and your Chesapeake decides not to bring them back. Or a little exposure may be all that's required.

    Tease the dog with the bird, and throw it. Don't distract him as he checks it out. Get it yourself if he doesn't pick it up. Quit after just a few minutes. Don't get discouraged, as dogs can be uninterested for days, then suddenly get it. If you can get a freshly killed pigeon, a lot of the time they are better for introductions than ducks.

    Amy Dahl

  10. #10
    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cochran, georgia
    Posts
    2,530

    Default

    I recently had some trouble with my dog who is Force Fetched not wanting to pick up a goose. Someone here gave me some helpful advice, sorry can't remember who or I would give credit.

    Put a bird out on the ground and just leave it there for him and don't ask him to fetch it or anything just let him sniff it look at it or whatever he wants to do. Don't let him eat it or pee on it LOL. After he has a while to decide it won't bite him then try to get him excited about it and fetching it. Most dogs will.

    Also a live bird with its wings clipped or shackled might get him wanting to chase it.
    Bad Motor Scooter SH

    He that tooteth not his own horn...The same shall not be tooted.

    There could be 5 or 6 ninjas in this room right now.

Similar Threads

  1. Is it wrong...
    By agile.labs in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-26-2009, 12:31 PM
  2. What went wrong?
    By TXduckdog in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-20-2009, 09:07 AM
  3. Is it a wrong........
    By KwickLabs in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 04-09-2009, 06:54 AM
  4. What is wrong with this situation??
    By Bud Bass in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-17-2008, 08:38 AM
  5. I'm I doing wrong
    By smokejmp52 in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-23-2007, 09:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •