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Thread: Energy Policy

  1. #21
    Senior Member Sundown49 aka Otey B's Avatar
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    I can see it now..........driving down the road in a pickup with a windmill in the back and a politician powering it with all the hot air...................SAD !!!!!
    My Dad said to me ."Son, a man just needs three things to be happy....A good dog, a good gun and a good wife.....Thank God I have all three
    Sundown's Boss of Delta Marsh JH (Louie QAA X Delta MH)
    Traveling Through The Graded Timber JH (2012 NAFC Trav X Timber MH QAA)

    Sundown's Ruff And Tuff (Boss JH X Lil Bit) best pup I have ever raised
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  2. #22
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundown49 aka Otey B View Post
    I can see it now..........driving down the road in a pickup with a windmill in the back and a politician powering it with all the hot air...................SAD !!!!!
    You left me smiling
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Interestingly, there are some rather simple alternatives to conserving fossil fuels.

    A local company installs a solar panel on your home (roof or south side wall). The heat of the sun heats liquid flowing through some simple piping. A fan (which uses minimal electricity) draws cool air from the house over the coils to disperse warmed air into the house. In winter this reduces heating costs (via warm air). In summer, the same system is used to heat domestic hot water. It can get the hot water to about 110 deg. and the regular "fuel" provides the additional heat needed (usually about 125 deg total). Estimates are that for electrically heated homes it can reduce consumption by about 30% ... even in a climate like Pennsylvania.

    This is a "passive solar" application. Cost is about $5000 installed. Actually using solar energy to convert to electrical energy is a much more expensive proposition. Think 5X more expensive.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

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  4. #24
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Interestingly, there are some rather simple alternatives to conserving fossil fuels.

    A local company installs a solar panel on your home (roof or south side wall). The heat of the sun heats liquid flowing through some simple piping. A fan (which uses minimal electricity) draws cool air from the house over the coils to disperse warmed air into the house. In winter this reduces heating costs (via warm air). In summer, the same system is used to heat domestic hot water. It can get the hot water to about 110 deg. and the regular "fuel" provides the additional heat needed (usually about 125 deg total). Estimates are that for electrically heated homes it can reduce consumption by about 30% ... even in a climate like Pennsylvania.

    This is a "passive solar" application. Cost is about $5000 installed. Actually using solar energy to convert to electrical energy is a much more expensive proposition. Think 5X more expensive.
    $5000.00 for a 30% reduction?

    not ready for prime time...
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    $5000.00 for a 30% reduction?

    not ready for prime time...

    Compared to "conventional" alternatives my neighbors are using, it's not bad. Pellet stoves $3000 for the stove + $400/year (depending on usage) for the pellets. Other neighbor has a woodburning "shack" that goes 24/7/365 for heat & hot water. I've been told those things cost at least $5000. He seems to get the wood free from the junk I see piled around the shack.

    Elec rates here due to increase by 30% in 2010. For use of 15,000 kwh/year the cost will be $2535. If one can save 30% of that, it will be about $750/year. Factoring in the Fed tax credit of 30% for the system, the cost for the system is around $3500 (no tax credits for the pellet stoves). As electric rates continue to increase, the advantage gets better.

    Point being that cost is about equal to other heating alternatives, and the "fuel" remains free (unless O decides to put a tax on sunlight!)

    Even if PP&L builds another nuclear plant, I don't think that reduced electric rates are in our future.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  6. #26
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Just so you understand my position, I love the idea of alternative (solar and wind), for want of a better term, energy. It just isn’t ready, from a cost benefit analysis, to replace oil or gas. I long for the day that I can pretty much generate my own power without the need of any energy company.

    You’re illustrating a comparison to electric that is the most expensive heat source in these parts pretty much makes my point. Without the high taxes that are associated with oil and gas and the tax credits given to the alternatives, it isn’t even close.

    I recently replaced my gas forced hot air system with a like unit for a little less than $3000.00

    And with your example you still need both systems.

    I do hope we get there but I won’t be lulled by my want and desire for an alternative system overshadowing the fact that from a cost benefit analysis, without onerous taxes and tax credits they do not and cannot compete with oil or gas.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Yes, subroc, you still need both systems, no argument. However, replacing part of our fuel needs with a "supplemental" system with "free" fuel can be a big help. After installing the gas or oil furnace, you still do have the ongoing fuel cost.

    Where I live, my choices are oil, electric, or propane. Electric used to be the most expensive, but since oil and propane have gone up, electric hasn't compared badly over the past three years or so. Most people I know who use oil will use at least 500 gallons a heating season. Even at $2/gal, that is $1000. Till now, PP&L, the elec co that serves our area has had more reasonable elec rates than many other places. My son has gas heat, a larger house than mine, and in the heating months his gas bill can go as high as $400/mo. I see you are in NH ... colder up there than here in PA!!

    My thinking is that we have a long way to go to find an alternative to the internal combustion engine for cars, but we may be able to use other ways to heat our homes, thus buying time to work out the technology for our vehicles.

    With increased consciousness of heating costs, an improvement like this does add value to a home. So, the idea of adding value to the home, and doing that by not paying some money to the electric company ... priceless
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sundown49 aka Otey B's Avatar
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    The most simple thing to fix the energy shortage would be for someone to convince al gore that the children's book "Henny PennY was FICTION and that the sky is not falling. Check out the money trail of who stands to gain most and you will find there is not near the problem that most people think.
    My Dad said to me ."Son, a man just needs three things to be happy....A good dog, a good gun and a good wife.....Thank God I have all three
    Sundown's Boss of Delta Marsh JH (Louie QAA X Delta MH)
    Traveling Through The Graded Timber JH (2012 NAFC Trav X Timber MH QAA)

    Sundown's Ruff And Tuff (Boss JH X Lil Bit) best pup I have ever raised
    Home of HRCH Sundown's Loaded To The Maxx (FC AFC Jamie X Dixie QAA) RIP
    www.sundownlabs.com

  9. #29
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    Just thought some might be interested in this peak oil overview: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5582#more

  10. #30
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Why is everyone LOCKED on solar & wind?

    Someone needs to come up with something we haven't even thought of yet.

    Solar & wind are not the answer.
    Stan b & Elvis

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