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Thread: Obama Skips Medal of Honor Ball

  1. #31
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Of course, the ultimate double standard has to do with how we treat "citations" for heroism based on the identity of the hero. This one sticks in my mind:

    "For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving as Officer in Charge of United States Navy Patrol Craft Fast 94 and officer in Tactical Command of an operation in the Republic of Vietnam. On 28 February 1969, Patrol Craft Fast 23, 43 and 94, in conjunction with Underwater Demolition Team 13 and Vietnamese Regional and Popular Forces personnel, conducted an operation on the Ca Mau Peninsula as part of Operation SEA LORDS. While transiting the Bay Hap River en route to an insertion point along the Dong Cung River, these craft with thirty Regional/Popular Force personnel embarked in each unit came under heavy enemy small arms fire from the river banks. The Officer in Tactical Command, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY directed his units to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY expertly directed the fire of his craft at the fleeing enemy while simultaneously coordinating the insertion of the embarked troops. While the Regional and Popular Forces conducted an area sweep, Patrol Craft Fast 43 remained on station to provide fire support and Patrol Craft Fast 23 and 94 moved upstream to investigate an area from which gunshots were coming. Arriving at the area, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY's craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered his units to charge the enemy positions and summoned Patrol Craft Fast 43 to the area to provide additional firepower. Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY then led an assault party and conducted a sweep of the area while the Patrol Craft Fast continued to provide fire support. After the enemy had been completely routed, all personnel returned to the Patrol Craft Fast to withdraw from the area. While backing off the beach, these units again came under a hail of fire, this time from the opposite river bank. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY immediately coordinated the firepower of his units and supressed the enemy fire. Later, after disembarking personnel, and while exiting from the Bay Hap River, the Patrol Craft Fast were again under fire. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY immediately maneuvered his craft through several strafing runs which completely silenced the enemy. As a result of this operation, ten Viet Cong were killed and one wounded with no friendly casualties. In addition, numerous sampans, structures and bunkers were destroyed as well as confiscation of substantial quantities of combat essential supplies. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY's devotion to duty, courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism directly contributed to the success of this operation and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the Unites States Naval Service."

    It became the target of a group of self-proclaimed "patriots" whose lying tactics have become a verb in our language. Those circulating this particular attack across the Internet were the same ones supporting the swift boaters in their activities. And for those who want to rehash the details of this citation with the fabrications circulated at that time, I include the Snopes citation for one of the more prominent attacks: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp.

  2. #32
    Senior Member WindyCreek's Avatar
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    Nice try but.......... John Kerry did not receive the Medal of Honor, only the Medal of Honor citations contain the word intrepidity. Is the citation from his Naval Records he refused to release?

    On the other hand Senator Bob Kerry did receive the Medal of Honor. I'm sure that is one of the 98 citations you read.

    http://www.cmohs.org/recipients/living_cites_kl.htm

    BTW I have the highest respect for all Veterans who served honorable. I served 30 years on active duty and in more than one conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Of course, the ultimate double standard has to do with how we treat "citations" for heroism based on the identity of the hero. This one sticks in my mind:

    "For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving as Officer in Charge of United States Navy Patrol Craft Fast 94 and officer in Tactical Command of an operation in the Republic of Vietnam. On 28 February 1969, Patrol Craft Fast 23, 43 and 94, in conjunction with Underwater Demolition Team 13 and Vietnamese Regional and Popular Forces personnel, conducted an operation on the Ca Mau Peninsula as part of Operation SEA LORDS. While transiting the Bay Hap River en route to an insertion point along the Dong Cung River, these craft with thirty Regional/Popular Force personnel embarked in each unit came under heavy enemy small arms fire from the river banks. The Officer in Tactical Command, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY directed his units to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY expertly directed the fire of his craft at the fleeing enemy while simultaneously coordinating the insertion of the embarked troops. While the Regional and Popular Forces conducted an area sweep, Patrol Craft Fast 43 remained on station to provide fire support and Patrol Craft Fast 23 and 94 moved upstream to investigate an area from which gunshots were coming. Arriving at the area, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY's craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered his units to charge the enemy positions and summoned Patrol Craft Fast 43 to the area to provide additional firepower. Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY then led an assault party and conducted a sweep of the area while the Patrol Craft Fast continued to provide fire support. After the enemy had been completely routed, all personnel returned to the Patrol Craft Fast to withdraw from the area. While backing off the beach, these units again came under a hail of fire, this time from the opposite river bank. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY immediately coordinated the firepower of his units and supressed the enemy fire. Later, after disembarking personnel, and while exiting from the Bay Hap River, the Patrol Craft Fast were again under fire. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY immediately maneuvered his craft through several strafing runs which completely silenced the enemy. As a result of this operation, ten Viet Cong were killed and one wounded with no friendly casualties. In addition, numerous sampans, structures and bunkers were destroyed as well as confiscation of substantial quantities of combat essential supplies. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY's devotion to duty, courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism directly contributed to the success of this operation and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the Unites States Naval Service."

    It became the target of a group of self-proclaimed "patriots" whose lying tactics have become a verb in our language. Those circulating this particular attack across the Internet were the same ones supporting the swift boaters in their activities. And for those who want to rehash the details of this citation with the fabrications circulated at that time, I include the Snopes citation for one of the more prominent attacks: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp.

  3. #33
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCreek View Post
    Nice try but.......... John Kerry did not receive the Medal of Honor, only the Medal of Honor citations contain the word intrepidity. Is the citation from his Naval Records he refused to release?

    On the other hand Senator Bob Kerry did receive the Medal of Honor. I'm sure that is one of the 98 citations you read.

    http://www.cmohs.org/recipients/living_cites_kl.htm

    BTW I have the highest respect for all Veterans who served honorable. I served 30 years on active duty and in more than one conflict.
    I assumed all would know that the citation was for the silver star. I was not implying it was the Medal of Honor. Both evidence a high degree of selfless heroism and both deserve our respect.

  4. #34
    Senior Member WindyCreek's Avatar
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    I'm quite aware of veterans benefits, I am a veteran.

    And your solution for National Defense is? A 10% cut to the overall budget which is what is proposed will translate to decreased readiness and some day brave Americans will be once again asked to do heroic deeds. They as they always have will deliver but the issue is at what price.

    Stateside infrastructure creates jobs in Congressional districts but does not do much good on the battlefield. The mission of the military is to deter first and if necessary fight and win our wars, the later comes on battlefields.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    First, let's be clear that a cut to the defense department does not equate to a cut in veterans benefits. Second, the Bush administration left the new president a unprecedented deficit which will require spending cuts. Since the defense budget makes up as big a piece of the federal budget (21%) as any other (see http://www.cbpp.org/4-20-07tax2-f1.jpg) and another 60% of the budget is virtually untouchable there will have to be cuts to defense. Oh, and it sures looks like a bunch of the stimulus package is aimed at military infrastructure too.

  5. #35
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    I think it is just about par for the course with this guy

  6. #36
    Senior Member WindyCreek's Avatar
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    I'm curious, are you a Veteran?

    Also what was Joe Biden's status during Vietnam (4F for a medical condition but was on the swim team in college)? How long did President Obama serve? Just because there is not a draft does not mean you can't serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    I have all the respect in the world for veterans and I would bet the President and VP do to.
    What a contrast here, this President is accused of having little character or respect for the military just because he did not go to the dance and sent his VP instead (whose son is serving). On the other hand we had Mr. "5 deferments but I am a hawk" Cheney and Mr. "my dad served honorably but I did not report for guard duty because I had other things to do" Bush who supposedly have more character on these issues. Talk about a double standard.

  7. #37
    Senior Member AmiableLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Just so we're clear. The $42 million number was the cost of the parties themselves under Bush and was paid for by contributions, not taxpayers. Another $100 million or so was paid for security by taxpayers. Bush's inauguration was unusual because most Presidents play down their second inaugural while Bush spent much more. About 300,000 attended, or 100,000 fewer than attended his first. There was very little criticism at that time and most of that stemmed from a single Congressmen.
    False. Criticism came from all over, not just the left blogosphere like Salon.com, etc., but also the New York Times.

    The comparable number for Obama is about $45 million for the parties themselves, a cost that was also paid by contributors. The final bill for security is not yet known but should be higher than for Bush since there were more than five times more people attending (1.5 - 2 million).
    Excluding the security costs for both the 2005 and 2009 inaugurations, the cost of the 2009 inauguration was more than three times the cost of 2005, roughly $150+ for 2009, and less than $50 for 2005. LINK Not surprising since the 2009 Inauguration was for four days and the 2005 for one day.

    There was a lot of criticism of the costs of Obama's inauguration -- mostly in the form of Conservative complaints that the media were not complaining about it.
    False. There was virtually NO complaining by the right about the cost of the 2009 inauguration or the media not reporting it. Rather the complaints from the right were almost entirely limited to complaints about the hypocrisy on the left for criticizing 2005 while condoning 2009.

    MSNBC, which typically fawns over Obama as much as Fox fawned over Bush, was the source of the mistaken comparison of the party-only cost for Bush's inauguration to the party plus security cost for Obama.
    That is a straw dog erected by Media Matters and has been disproved by many sources.
    Last edited by AmiableLabs; 01-30-2009 at 09:16 PM.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    False. Criticism came from all over, not just the left blogosphere like Salon.com, etc., but also the New York Times.
    I was able to find one opinion piece and one news story in the NYTimes. I also found one AP story. The Washington Post published posted, but buried, an opinion poll where the majority of Americans indicated that they would have preferred a more modest inaugural in 2005. What did you find?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    Excluding the security costs for both the 2005 and 2009 inaugurations, the cost of the 2009 inauguration was more than three times the cost of 2005, roughly $150+ for 2009, and less than $50 for 2005. LINK Not surprising since the 2009 Inauguration was for four days and the 2005 for one day.
    The story you link to is based on the mis-information published on MSNBC, The Daily News, etc., all without any fact checking. It compares the cost of the parties paid for by contributions for the Bush inauguration with the cost of security, clean-up and other costs for Obama. A preliminary accounting may be found at http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/bar...auguration.htm. The overall cost for Bush was $150-160 million. The cost for Obama, including comparable items should end up higher than that because of the larger number of people attending. For comments on the MSNBC/Media Matters confusion see http://mediamatters.org/countyfair/200901180004. The estimates I hae seen so far are around $170 million but I would expect it to go higher.


    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    False. There was virtually NO complaining by the right about the cost of the 2009 inauguration or the media not reporting it. Rather the complaints from the right were almost entirely limited to complaints about the hypocrisy on the left for criticizing 2005 while condoning 2009.
    Really?

    NY Daily News:

    Obama's inauguration is most expensive ever at $160 million
    It will take Barack Obama less than a minute to recite the oath of office -- and when he's done dancing at the inaugural balls Jan. 20, the price tag for his swearing-in festivities could approach $160 million.
    Obama's inaugural committee is in the midst of raising roughly $45 million in private funds, exceeding the $42.3 million President Bush spent in 2005. In 1993, Clinton spent $33 million when Democrats returned to the White House for the first time in 12 years.
    The Dail Mail (linked to by The Drudge Report):
    Bush declares a 'state of emergency' in Washington as cost of Obama's swearing-in ceremony soars to £110m


    The Drudge Report: Bush declares 'state of emergency' as cost of Obama's swearing-in ceremony soars...

    FLASHBACK: Lefties outraged at cost of Bush inauguration...

    Newsmax.com:
    Obama Inaugural Most Expensive in History

    Despite the recession, Barack Obama’s inauguration will be the most expensive ever and could approach $160 million — nearly four times what George Bush’s inauguration cost four years ago.

    etc., etc., etc. I have found more than 100 stories compaining about the cost ranging from Hannity's histrionics to almost every right wing blog on the Internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    That is a straw dog erected by Media Matters and has been disproved by many sources.
    Bull.....

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